Schoenberg's Sheen

[Mirror Image]

Don't forget those Atherton recordings !

Haven't heard the Atherton's yet, but I'll check them out. Kudos, snyprrr.

[Cato]

This recording with Jan DeGaetani was phenomenal.

Yes, that is a classic, right up there with Helga Pilarczyk's Pierrot Lunaire and Erwartung.

[Karl Henning]

Just for fun:

http://www.youtube.com/v/oOGQPowX86s

[Karl Henning]

To-day, I finally saw to the task of loading all my Craft/Schoenberg onto portable devices.

Well, no, not quite, as I've not yet seen to his account of the Gurre-Lieder.

In any event, I still have eleven discs of Boulez/Schoenberg to address . . . soon.

[Karl Henning]

Also still have got the Boulez/Webern Sony re-issue to see to.

And heaven help me: I've pulled the trigger on a copy of the HvK Second Viennese School box . . . .

[snyprrr]

And heaven help me: I've pulled the trigger on a copy of the HvK Second Viennese School box . . . .

Oh you are late to the party here, haha!! Surely you've had them before.

Karl?

Karl?

[Karl Henning]

Nope, never before.

[Karl Henning]

That's actually less hyperbolic than you might imagine. The Schoenberg/Gould box I own contains two hours of Arnie.

Sarge

Thanks to the Sarge's post here . . . I've pulled ye trigger on that very 2-CD box.

[petrarch]

I have been reading this book and finding it almost mandatory for anyone wishing to gain a better appreciation for Schoenberg, and his students.

[asin]0806529563[/asin]

+1. I have read it (I think I even have it) in the original language, French.

[Karl Henning]

Cross-post

. . . Here I must confess that I, too, at first considered Mahler's themes banal.  I consider it important to admit that I was Saul before I became Paul, since it may thence be deduced that those 'fine discriminations' of which certain opponents are so proud were not foreign to me. But they are foreign to me now, ever since my increasingly intense perception of the beauty and magnificence of Mahler's work has brought me to the point of admitting that it is not fine discrimination, but, on the contrary, the most blatant lack of the power of discrimination, which produces such judgements. I had found Mahler's themes banal, although the whole work had always made a profound impression on me. Today, with the worst will in the world, I could not react this way. Consider this: if they were really banal I should find them far more banal today than formerly.  For banal means rustic, and describes something which belongs to a low grade of culture, to no culture at all. In lower grades of culture there is found, not what is absolutely false or bad, but what used to be right, what is obsolete, what has been outlived, what is no longer true. The peasant does not behave badly, but archaically, just as those of a higher rank behaved before they knew better. Therefore, the banal represents a backward state of ethics and state of mind, which was once the state of mind of the higher ranks; it was not banal from the beginning, but became banal only when it was pushed aside by new and better customs. But it cannot rise up again — once it is banal, it must stay banal. And if I now maintain that I can no longer find these themes banal, they can never have been so; for a banal idea, an idea which appears obsolete and worn-out to me, can only appear more banal on closer acquaintance — but in no case noble. But if now I discover that the oftener I look at these ideas the more new beauties and noble traits are added to them, doubt is no longer possible: the idea is the opposite of banal. It is not something that we were long ago done with and cannot misunderstand, but something the deepest meaning of which is as yet far from completely revealed, something so profound that we have not become aware of more than its superficial appearance. And, in fact, this has happened not only to Mahler, but also to nearly all other great composers, who had to submit to the accusation of banality. I call to mind only Wagner and Brahms. I think that the change in my feeling provides a better yardstick than the judgement on first hearing which everyone is very quick to come out with as soon as he runs into a situation which he really does not understand.

From Style and Idea: Selected Writings of Arnold Schoenberg pp.455-456.

[snyprrr]

Thanks to the Sarge's post here . . . I've pulled ye trigger on that very 2-CD box.

All this gun talk Karl?

[Karl Henning]

All this gun talk Karl?

Have you thought that maybe you want to see it as gun talk, snypsss?

[Cato]

Thanks to Karl Henning:

Quote from Arnold Schoenberg:

. . . Here I must confess that I, too, at first considered Mahler's themes banal.  I consider it important to admit that I was Saul before I became Paul, since it may thence be deduced that those 'fine discriminations' of which certain opponents are so proud were not foreign to me. But they are foreign to me now, ever since my increasingly intense perception of the beauty and magnificence of Mahler's work has brought me to the point of admitting that it is not fine discrimination, but, on the contrary, the most blatant lack of the power of discrimination, which produces such judgments. I had found Mahler's themes banal, although the whole work had always made a profound impression on me. Today, with the worst will in the world, I could not react this way.

An excellent example of how artists can change!  "I consider it important to admit that I was Saul before I became Paul."  "Important" indeed!

Schoenberg was not known for a gentle personality, so such a statement is quite revelatory!

[Karl Henning]

The Rosbaud Moses und Aron is restocked at BRO. Just sayin'.

[Octave]

Cato/Karl, that Schoenberg quote on Mahler is fascinating; what is the source for it?

[Karl Henning]

A book which overall is juicy reading:

[asin]0520266072[/asin]

[Karl Henning]

Dunno, that was just the edition to be found at Amazon. I've got the same as your esteemed self.  Possibly just the new foreword by Joseph Auner.

[Daverz]

The Rosbaud Moses und Aron is restocked at BRO. Just sayin'.

On a label called BAG-OF-RAGS.  Just sayin'.

[Karl Henning]

On a label called BAG-OF-RAGS.  Just sayin'.

It does have that "garage band" feel . . . .

[jlaurson]

Dip Your Ears, No. 146 (Christine Schäfer Sings SchoenBerg)


http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/dip-your-ears-no-146-christine-schafer_13.html