Author Topic: USA Politics (redux)  (Read 138248 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #3320 on: December 04, 2021, 11:36:31 AM »
Michigan school shooting suspect’s parents held on $500,000 bond each as judge expresses flight-risk concerns

Acting on a tip, police found the pair hiding in a commercial building, authorities said
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #3321 on: December 04, 2021, 11:41:07 AM »
The pistol, purchased by James Crumbley on Nov. 26, was stored in an unlocked drawer in the parents’ bedroom, according to officials.

A day before the fatal shooting, a teacher noticed Ethan Crumbley using his cellphone to search for information on firearm ammunition. Jennifer Crumbley did not respond when the school contacted her via voice mail about her son’s “inappropriate” search, McDonald said. Instead, she exchanged a text message with her son that read, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”
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Offline milk

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #3322 on: December 04, 2021, 04:50:44 PM »
It's not complicated:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7ebPj_FqM5Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7ebPj_FqM5Q</a>
How did that guy end up dying so young? This is a bad place to debate that issue but I don’t buy that it’s as simple as Brooks said. I AM wondering if people still feel a two-state solution is possible? Maybe that needs another thread. I honestly don’t know so much about the issue. That the far-left has tried to make it about race is annoying.

Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #3323 on: December 04, 2021, 06:54:21 PM »
How did that guy end up dying so young? This is a bad place to debate that issue but I don’t buy that it’s as simple as Brooks said. I AM wondering if people still feel a two-state solution is possible? Maybe that needs another thread. I honestly don’t know so much about the issue. That the far-left has tried to make it about race is annoying.

It is not complicated if like Brooks you pretend that Palestinians are completely innocent people, ignoring the 20 years of violence (most of it attacking Arabs attacking Jews, not vice versa) that preceded 1948, the extremism and terrorism that have been the dominant voice in Palestinian discourse ever since 1948, the fact that what the great majority of Palestinians want is a state in which they don't have to live with Jews (the moderates are content with a two state solution, as long as one is only Palestinians)--that is, an apartheid ethnostate of the sort which antizionists claim to be against--and similar considerations.

Not all antizionists are antisemites, but almost all antisemites are antizionists because it provides a socially acceptable way of hating Jews.  And enough antizionists seem to think of the Jewish community in the West as merely an extension of "Zionism" and therefore legitimate targets of boycott and insult that antisemitism is a fair charge against them.

It should also be remembered that Western antizionism--which is based on a false version of Jewish history derived from Christian supersessionism and 19th century antisemitism--was developed by Soviet idealogues to give the USSR a way to influence Muslim countries and to justify persecution of Jews within the USSR. "The evil that men do lives on long after them" applies here.

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Offline Fëanor

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #3324 on: Today at 05:49:48 AM »
It is not complicated if like Brooks you pretend that Palestinians are completely innocent people, ignoring the 20 years of violence (most of it attacking Arabs attacking Jews, not vice versa) that preceded 1948, the extremism and terrorism that have been the dominant voice in Palestinian discourse ever since 1948, the fact that what the great majority of Palestinians want is a state in which they don't have to live with Jews (the moderates are content with a two state solution, as long as one is only Palestinians)--that is, an apartheid ethnostate of the sort which antizionists claim to be against--and similar considerations.

I'm afraid I'm hearing just standard, pro-Zionist apologetic for policies and actions of the Israeli state.

Granted, Palestinians by their own action have provided Israeli governments plenty of excuses to suppress them.  Palestinians have been stupid, by refusal to find compromises with Israel and amongst themselves, and restrain their own radicals.  But it's rare in historical situations that the deprived and disposed are totally saintly in their struggles, (not excluding Gandhi).

For their part, Palestinians broadly see Jewish settlement o Palestine, including today in the West Bank, as largely European neo-colonialism.  Of course that's not how Zionists see the situation but it's not an unreasonable assessment from a disinterested POV.


Not all antizionists are antisemites, but almost all antisemites are antizionists because it provides a socially acceptable way of hating Jews.  And enough antizionists seem to think of the Jewish community in the West as merely an extension of "Zionism" and therefore legitimate targets of boycott and insult that antisemitism is a fair charge against them.

It should also be remembered that Western antizionism--which is based on a false version of Jewish history derived from Christian supersessionism and 19th century antisemitism--was developed by Soviet idealogues to give the USSR a way to influence Muslim countries and to justify persecution of Jews within the USSR. "The evil that men do lives on long after them" applies here.

But not all "anti-Zionism", (your term) -- more precisely criticism of the Israeli state, its policies and behaviors and those of segments of its Jewish population -- is anti-Semitism -- to imply such isn't a fair or logical basis to deflect criticism of Israeli behavior towards Palestinians.

Warning:  strawman.  Western criticism of Israel is not based on a false version of Jewish history -- it is based on the 20th century and current history of the Israeli state.