Author Topic: Graun Gardens  (Read 3378 times)

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Offline Gordo

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Graun Gardens
« on: November 30, 2013, 09:05:58 PM »


Quote
Copper engraving of the sun -considered the embodiment of goodness and perfection- with Bach at his centre and surrounded by other German composers as its "rays", designed by the English organist Augustus Frederick Christopher Kollmann and published in the Allgemeine musicalische Zeitung, Vol. I (1799).

Haydn is said "not to have taken it amiss, nor that he was placed next to Handel and Graun, still less that he found it wrong that Joh. Seb. Bach was at the centre of the sun and hence the man from whom all true musical wisdom proceeded".
-- Gardiner, John Eliot, Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven.
Musica lætitiæ comes medicina dolorum
(Music is a companion to joy and a medicine for pains)

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2013, 08:28:03 AM »


Graun, Carl Heinrich, a composer I had not heard of until seconds ago. And yet he was considered the equal of Handel and Haydn (at least by the designer). My, how reputations tarnish.

You're more knowledgeable of the Baroque than I am: do you have any Graun recommendations?

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
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Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Gordo

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 10:33:10 AM »
Graun, Carl Heinrich, a composer I had not heard of until seconds ago. And yet he was considered the equal of Handel and Haydn (at least by the designer). My, how reputations tarnish.

You're more knowledgeable of the Baroque than I am: do you have any Graun recommendations?

Sarge
No, really not. As a complete work, I just have a 2-CD set of the passion (or long cantata) titled Der Tod Jesu, recorded by S. Kuijken and his group on Hyperion.

It's a beautiful work, but -IMO- by no means revelatory of a composer of the same stature of Bach or Haydn. Unfortunately there is not a great discography available to check more extensively (just some opera and some instrumental music).

I thought that sketch and the quotation were other good proof of Haydn's proverbial good nature...

Anyway, it's an interesting list to explore.
Musica lætitiæ comes medicina dolorum
(Music is a companion to joy and a medicine for pains)

kishnevi

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2013, 07:17:59 AM »
I have something by Graun on CPO: instrumental works;  What exactly I would need to go poke among the CD shelves to know, but I seem to remember there were actually two Grauns,  but even then I don't remember whether it be father and son or brother and brother or uncle and nephew. 

At any rate,  what I remember of the music suggests he was the equal of, say, CPE Bach in his (Graun's) best moments, and otherwise very typical of the mid 18th century.  He'd be a good composer to collect if you want a composer who was truly representative of his era, instead of being one of the giants.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 07:46:16 AM »
Well, we can't expand on this as it needs to be in this thread, although it is possible there is another already dedicated. IIRC, Sonic Dave likes these guys, and probably has a thread on them.

Anyway, there were two, brothers, Carl Heinrich and Johann Gottlieb. I wouldn't call them purely Baroque, they were 'pre-Classical' more than anything. Very influential among the Germans (not so much in Austria then). C.H. did mainly operas and masses, J.G. did much of the instrumental music.

If someone can find the Graun thread I will move this block of posts over there and we can revive it. :)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 07:48:20 AM »
If there is not yet a thread, I vote for The Graun Base.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
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nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2013, 07:53:42 AM »
Run to Graun!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Gordo

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 07:57:41 AM »
If there is not yet a thread, I vote for The Graun Base.

Maybe "Lolita's House"?

As Carl Heinrich Braun was great-great-great-great-granfather of Vladimir Nabokov.  ;D
Musica lætitiæ comes medicina dolorum
(Music is a companion to joy and a medicine for pains)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 08:03:33 AM »
Before things Graun to a halt.... :)

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 08:08:58 AM »

-- Gardiner, John Eliot, Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven.

I would hate to think that this was just a move by Gurn to get this engraving out of the House.

No, our Gurn is not that kind of person.  >:D

Musica lætitiæ comes medicina dolorum
(Music is a companion to joy and a medicine for pains)

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 08:22:50 AM »
Offhand, it does not look like an equilateral triangle . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 08:24:04 AM »
I would hate to think that this was just a move by Gurn to get this engraving out of the House.

No, our Gurn is not that kind of person.  >:D

No, no, I am actually very familiar with that engraving. Robbins-Landon has it in one of his books. Anyway, in re your earlier quoting of a statement that Haydn had no hard feelings about his name not being at the center and sharing a space with Graun et al, well, he wouldn't, would he?  That sort of professional jealousy would be totally out of character for Haydn. And Carl Graun was a big deal back when Haydn was just starting out, so despite the fact that he had been superseded by events, being a big deal in ones own time is the best one can hope for. If one has a proper perspective on accomplishments, one soon realizes that there is no control over what comes after.

I put Graun in a class with Heinechen, Holzbauer and others of that time. Damn good for when they wrote, despite that much of their music doesn't strike a popular chord today. So it goes. :)

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kishnevi

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »
I have something by Graun on CPO: instrumental works;  What exactly I would need to go poke among the CD shelves to know, but I seem to remember there were actually two Grauns,  but even then I don't remember whether it be father and son or brother and brother or uncle and nephew. 

At any rate,  what I remember of the music suggests he was the equal of, say, CPE Bach in his (Graun's) best moments, and otherwise very typical of the mid 18th century.  He'd be a good composer to collect if you want a composer who was truly representative of his era, instead of being one of the giants.

Having checked,  I find my Graun CDs are actually limited to just one:

and the inclusion of Carl Heinrich in the credits to that recording may be an overstatement.  It includes two works by Johann Gottlieb (did he ever call himself Amadeus/Amade/Theophilus?), and two works doubtfully attributed to Carl Heinrich,  and another which is probably by Graupner.   

The fact that I never felt impelled to follow up with more Graun should clarify what I said above--despite some very good moments,  this music seems very typical of its era.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 07:32:44 PM »
An interesting thing about the engraving: it contradicts the conventional wisdom that JS Bach was practically forgotten between his death and the revival that allegedly began with Mendelssohn. At least among musicians, Bach never really went out of fashion.
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Offline fahl5

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7 virtuos Concertos by J.G.Graun (1703-1771) and C.H.Graun (1704-1759)
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 11:23:58 PM »
I found your interesting discussion about Graun. While Carl Heinrich is interesting for his Operas, in my opinion, Johann Gottlieb is at least for instrumental music even more interesting and at least more productive.

I just finished a little (70 min) digital realisation Project with seven Concertos of the Graun's to make more of the unknown music of those great brothers audible .

Most of them (GWV:B:XIII:66,90,155, GWV:C:XIII:45) are recorded for the first time as far as I know.

The older Brother Johann Gottlieb Graun wrote pretty much concertos of which most of them seem not yet recorded. While he was an excellent Violinist who studied with Pisendel and Tartini, he also wrote a lot interesting concertos for winds like his Bassonconcertos, Concertos for Oboe, or for Alto-Recorder.

You can find Concertos for violin, for Recorder and Violin, for Oboe for Basson or for Harpsichord here:

http://klassik-resampled.de/jg-graun



The Concert was not that characteristic for Carl Heinrich Graun who wrote beside his few Harpsichordconcerts much more Operas.

You can find two of his Harpsichordconcertos here:

http://klassik-resampled.de/ch-graun

I hope you like it.

best

fahl5
klassik-resampled: over 1400 mp3 with 77 hours often rare music

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 12:54:35 AM »
I have this CPO SACD of Carl Heinrich Graun's Te Deum + Three Motets:


I think it's enjoyable music of high quality and I'd recommend it strongly to those who are into music between baroque and classical styles (Hasse etc.).

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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Graun Gardens
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 02:30:53 PM »
Graun's just got a big boost, methinks! Now if only people pick up on it.

Major artist-love. And very well done, both in concert and on CD:


Classical CD Of The Week: Julia Lezhneva Discovers Graun