Battle of the Sergeis

[mc ukrneal]

But what I was saying in terms of 'compositional wingspan' has to do with the myriad of styles Prokofiev wrote in. Rachmaninov's compositional voice was much more limited as he was essentially a late-Romantic. This is why I mentioned Prokofiev is a more complicated musical persona. It certainly, and, of course I never said, that one approach was better than the other. They were both two very different composers, I just feel that Prokofiev had more to offer the listener in terms of style.

Well this I totally disagree with (particularly the bolded part). You are making a value judgment on their styles and music. Late-romantic music is not inherently 'less complicated' than other music that came after it.

[Mirror Image]

Well this I totally disagree with (particularly the bolded part). You are making a value judgment on their styles and music. Late-romantic music is not inherently 'less complicated' than other music that came after it.

So what if I am, Neal? I don't think any less of Rachmaninov because he's a late-Romantic just like I don't think any more of Prokofiev because he's a Modernist. I'm simply saying that I think Prokofiev, in terms of style, had more variety to offer the listener. But, as with anything, it'll always come down to subjectivity, which, in this case, I do enjoy more Prokofiev than Rachmaninov truth be told.

[marvinbrown]

Ah, but Prokofiev composed successfully in more genres than Rachmaninov or I should say his compositional 'wingspan' was wider. For example, Prokofiev wrote some absolutely masterful ballets. Have you heard any of them? Have you heard Alexander Nevsky? This is another Prokofiev masterwork that sits right beside any Russian choral masterpiece. I think it's safe to say here you just prefer Rachmaninov over Prokofiev, which is absolutely fine of course, but don't think for a minute that Prokofiev wasn't a versatile composer. He was a true chameleon. It would take you a lifetime to be able to peg down the essence of Prokofiev, while, Rachmaninov, on the other hand, was much more straightforward, IMHO, in his musical endeavors.

  Yes you are right, Prokofiev did compose in more genres than Rachmaninov, and yes Rach was more straightforward in his "Romantic" approach. I will admit though that I do prefer Rach overall. The only Prokofiev ballets  that I have heard are Romeo and Juliet and Cinderella so I will look into Alexander Nevsky.

  I think part of the problem here is that Prokofiev is not promoted as much as he should be. When I think of Prokofiev I think the 7 symphonies (especially 1 "Classical" and 5), the Fiery Angel (opera) and the piano and violin concertos.  I very rarely play Love for Three Oranges and hardly read anything enthusiastic about his other compositions. I think this is the problem here, very little is written about this man beyond those compositions I mentioned.

   

  marvin

[North Star]

  Yes you are right, Prokofiev did compose in more genres than Rachmaninov, and yes Rach was more straightforward in his "Romantic" approach. I will admit though that I do prefer Rach overall. The only Prokofiev ballets  that I have heard are Romeo and Juliet and Cinderella so I will look into Alexander Nevsky.

  I think part of the problem here is that Prokofiev is not promoted as much as he should be. When I think of Prokofiev I think the 7 symphonies (especially 1 "Classical" and 5), the Fiery Angel (opera) and the piano and violin concertos.  I very rarely play Love for Three Oranges and hardly read anything enthusiastic about his other compositions. I think this is the problem here, very little is written about this man beyond those compositions I mentioned.

  marvin

Solo piano works!

Have you heard Violin Sonata no. 1 in F minor, Op. 80 or the Cello Sonata? Is Semyon Kotko among the operas you've heard?

...Scythian Suite...

[marvinbrown]

Solo piano works!

Have you heard Violin Sonata no. 1 in F minor, Op. 80 or the Cello Sonata? Is Semyon Kotko among the operas you've heard?

...Scythian Suite...

  I have not heard the solo piano works, although I vaguely remember someone recommending them to me.  I have the violin sonatas I believe but not the cello sonata nor have I heard Semyon Kotko.  I should get moving on these. 

  Thanks for the recommendations.  My amazon.co.uk shopping list grows by the hour. 

  marvin

[Cato]

Protopopov composed (as far as I can find) all of 11 works.  Apparently after his musical theories were found wanting in Marxist thought by Stalin's government, he either stopped composing altogether, or never published whatever he did compose.

I found this very nice explanation of his music: it concentrates mainly on the 3 Piano Sonatas:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WNfpClVLAasC&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Karl Henning]

Solo piano works!

Have you heard Violin Sonata no. 1 in F minor, Op. 80 or the Cello Sonata? Is Semyon Kotko among the operas you've heard?

...Scythian Suite...

  I have not heard the solo piano works, although I vaguely remember someone recommending them to me.  I have the violin sonatas I believe but not the cello sonata nor have I heard Semyon Kotko.  I should get moving on these. 

  Thanks for the recommendations.  My amazon.co.uk shopping list grows by the hour. 

Karlo's suggestion of the Op.80 is particularly apt, Marvin.  If that is a piece you do not yet know — run, do not walk.  It will melt you.

[North Star]

Protopopov composed (as far as I can find) all of 11 works.  Apparently after his musical theories were found wanting in Marxist thought by Stalin's government, he either stopped composing altogether, or never published whatever he did compose.

Ah, you've discovered the name under which Gavriil Popov published his premature works! 

[Mirror Image]

  Yes you are right, Prokofiev did compose in more genres than Rachmaninov, and yes Rach was more straightforward in his "Romantic" approach. I will admit though that I do prefer Rach overall. The only Prokofiev ballets  that I have heard are Romeo and Juliet and Cinderella so I will look into Alexander Nevsky.

  I think part of the problem here is that Prokofiev is not promoted as much as he should be. When I think of Prokofiev I think the 7 symphonies (especially 1 "Classical" and 5), the Fiery Angel (opera) and the piano and violin concertos.  I very rarely play Love for Three Oranges and hardly read anything enthusiastic about his other compositions. I think this is the problem here, very little is written about this man beyond those compositions I mentioned.

Well, Prokofiev wrote several ballets that worth hearing besides Romeo & Juliet and Cinderella. Like, for instance, On the Dnieper, Le pas d'acier, Chout, The Prodigal Son (Symphony No. 4 and this ballet share some thematic material) and The Stone Flower. Have you heard Sinfonia Concertante for cello and orchestra? This is another masterful work. Oh and Alexander Nevsky, just to be clear, is a cantata, not a ballet.

[Karl Henning]

I've been listening again to L'enfant prodigue these past two evenings, miraculously beautiful.

Ah, you've discovered the name under which Gavriil Popov published his premature works! 

(* chortle *)

[North Star]

  I have not heard the solo piano works, although I vaguely remember someone recommending them to me.  I have the violin sonatas I believe but not the cello sonata nor have I heard Semyon Kotko.  I should get moving on these. 

  Thanks for the recommendations.  My amazon.co.uk shopping list grows by the hour. 

  marvin

That must have been me (and Don).
Semyon Kotko should appeal to you with it's melodic nature.
Since you already have the violin sonatas, this is the next Prokofiev you want:

Karlo's suggestion of the Op.80 is particularly apt, Marvin.  If that is a piece you do not yet know — run, do not walk.  It will melt you.

Funny how you said to run, not walk to get the Kremer/Argerich recording when I joined and asked for recommendations, 2½ years ago, like that recurring comment on Schnittke 1st 

[Mirror Image]

I've been listening again to L'enfant prodigue these past two evenings, miraculously beautiful.

Seconded. A gorgeous work and one of my favorites, but I love all of Prokofiev's ballets. So I suppose I'm just biased all-around here.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

That must have been me (and Don).

Yes, outstanding set...

Semyon Kotko should appeal to you with it's melodic nature.
Since you already have the violin sonatas, this is the next Prokofiev you want:

I don't have much time but Marvin I hope now you've seen what Prokofiev means to many of us! Our numbers may not reach Beethovenian heights but the gap is closing by the day!

[Karl Henning]

That must have been me (and Don).
Semyon Kotko should appeal to you with it's melodic nature.
Since you already have the violin sonatas, this is the next Prokofiev you want:

Funny how you said to run, not walk to get the Kremer/Argerich recording when I joined and asked for recommendations, 2½ years ago, like that recurring comment on Schnittke 1st 

I need to take fewer wild rides, I guess, my friend! 

[marvinbrown]

That must have been me (and Don).
Semyon Kotko should appeal to you with it's melodic nature.
Since you already have the violin sonatas, this is the next Prokofiev you want:

Funny how you said to run, not walk to get the Kremer/Argerich recording when I joined and asked for recommendations, 2½ years ago, like that recurring comment on Schnittke 1st 

  Yes that is it!  I remember seeing that recording of the piano sonatas.  I'll get that now and look into the other suggestion.  Thank you all for the recommendations.  Somebody should marry this thread with the what % of Prokofiev have you heard poll/thread...I can't seem to find it now....its been such a long time I am going to have to go through my posts.


  EDIT: I found it: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21082.msg670603.html#msg670603  and you were right North Star IT WAS YOU!! 
  marvin

[Sammy]

Both Rachmaninov and Prokofiev are greater composers than Taneyev.  However, I've listened to Taneyev more often in the past ten years so I voted for the guy.

[Brahmsian]

Both Rachmaninov and Prokofiev are greater composers than Taneyev.  However, I've listened to Taneyev more often in the past ten years so I voted for the guy.

Thumbs up! 

[North Star]

  Yes that is it!  I remember seeing that recording of the piano sonatas.  I'll get that now and look into the other suggestion.  Thank you all for the recommendations.  Somebody should marry this thread with the what % of Prokofiev have you heard poll/thread...I can't seem to find it now....its been such a long time I am going to have to go through my posts.


  EDIT: I found it: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21082.msg670603.html#msg670603  and you were right North Star IT WAS YOU!! 
  marvin

Excellent! (I think I've heard 55% now, btw - and that Chiu set has become $100 cheaper - only $299.99 now...