Blind comparison : Mahler 2nd symphony [2nd round until March 16]

[zauberflöte]

Group M

Easiest group for me to determine place, mostly because one in the group, M2, didn't really belong. It sounded like the East Jebip High School  Marching Band doing a quick run through  before the big game. No sense of drama, just plow through the notes. And who needs orchestral cohesion?  The audience will figure it out

The other two were fine though neither knocked my socks off.

M1 seemed to build drama the better of the two

So... in order:
M1
M3
M2

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks zauberflöte, I therefore declare votes closed in group M, and results will come in the next hours.

By the way, I still need at least one voter (in group L). Also, there are several voters who seem just gone (at least for the moment), for instance madaboutmahler, Que, NorthNYMark, TheGSMoeller... So it might be better as a security if some of you would still listen to a last group...

[fridden]

I can listen to group L

/Fridden

[Madiel]

Not sure I can do another group, as listening to each recording takes over an hour...

...can I just make one general observation as someone new to this music. Quite a few of these conductors don't seem terribly interested in making the Allegro maestoso sound like it's actually an Allegro. I was taken by surprise (pleasantly) when one recording felt like an Allegro - the fact that this was novel was what made me take a look at the score to check!!

[Cosi bel do]

That is actually an interesting remark. The "maestoso" is not supposed to neutralize the "allegro" and transform it in and Andante (or worse)...

[Cosi bel do]

Second round results

Group M

Five voters and as you can see, there is a clear eliminated version, that is M1. Everything is clear here :

1. M3
2. M2
3. M1

Version C1 / M1
Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Amsterdam (Mahlerfeest, live, 5 May 1995)
Jard van Nes, mezzo soprano

This beloved version (for many listeners at least) is eliminated, as was Haitinks previous 1984 Kerstmatinees version with the same soloist in Urlicht (D1). I really thought this version could pretend to be close to the finals, but its coldness, its too serious and too neat approach was what displeased to voters, despite excellent sonics. We'll now see if M3 and M2 can keep this good run in the next round.

[kishnevi]

So I voted Haitink down twice!  Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be in a hurry to get that Haitink Edition after all.  Although I seem to remember his CSO recording (on CSO Resound) as being a good one.

Very well.  For my second group this round

Groupe P

P2 was too sunny and optimistic.  P1 and P3 captured what I think is the correct emotional tone, with P3 being somewhat more intense.

So P3>P1>P2

[mc ukrneal]

Here are my comments for Group Q:
Q1 –I like the phrasing here, which is what I am understanding is so key to my enjoyment of the movement. It is a bit slack in its tempo (and lacking in pulse), which reduces the tension a bit. It's a very good version nevertheless, and played well too. This one allows you to sit back and enjoy the journey (really luxuriate in it).  Ranking: 1

Q2 –More staccato at the beginning, which I find damages the overall line as well as the ebb and flow. It is less nuanced. It seems less forceful as well even after cranking up the volume. Didn't really like this one as much (though not the worst by a long shot). Much faster too, and with some nice contrasts in tempo between the different sections.    Ranking: 2

Q3 – Lower strings seem blander to me at the start. There is not much being done with the music. It's like they are playing the notes, but they have no feeling behind them (lifeless phrasing). And the dynamics are static (pretty much throughout), when so much more can be done here. This one is also more sudden/jerky in its tempo changes. I feel little connection between sections and the flow and ebb is just not there. It just feels like it lumbers along. A dud for me.  Ranking: 3

Pretty easy to order this one. Q1 was dynamic and though it didn't have the extra something to make it the best, you really could feel what the movement was about. Q2 wasn't quite as good, and quite different, but still had a number of attractive qualities (even if hit and miss overall). Q3 wasn't even in the same conversation – just lacked anything to hold my interest.

In order of preference: Q1, Q2, Q3.

PS: I have now listened to 12 performances and if I had to pick one of them, it would be O1. This one had it all for me.

[Madiel]

My comments for Group N.

For me there was a clear, clear winner after a couple of listens, and the tricky bit was deciding the other places.

First place goes to N3. And the primary reason is the one I alluded to in a previous post - this is actually an ALLEGRO!! The whole thing has wonderful drive and momentum as a result of having the basic pulse right. There are plenty of changes of speed as required, yes, but the opening theme sounds exactly Allegro Maestoso. As the first movement of a symphony, it's thoroughly convincing, and it made the others sound stodgy.

In second place, daylight.

In 'third' place, after much thought, I'll go with N2. Not without hesitation, because the opening is absolutely plodding. And the very end is absolutely horrible, completely lacking in any drama. But in between there's a decent amount of colour, and some of it's fast (including in places which make we wonder why the opening wasn't).

In last place, then is N1. Not because it's bad (except the ending poor again), but because too much of it is a bit dull. Wallpaper music. Even the annoyances of N2 beat that because there are compensations elsewhere. Not all of N1 is just note-spinning, but sizable portions of it are.

N3 >>>> N2 > N1



Right, now I'm going to have fun by seeing what other people said about this group, and finding out if any of you are Philistines. 

EDIT: Yes, most of you are, some moreso than others...

[Pat B]

Group O.

O1 and O2. Both good, and in good sound. I had trouble choosing between them after 2 full listens, then I spent some time comparing smaller sections, and even there my preference alternated between them. I think O1 nailed the climaxes a bit better, so I will give it a slight edge.

O3. I'm inclined to give some benefit of doubt to live performances, but at some point, sloppiness takes away from the power of the music.

O1 >(barely) O2 > O3

I prefer M3 over all of these.

[fridden]

Here is my vote for group L


L1 - I liked this, it has good sonic, passion and drama. Its a close recording, with real bite in the strings. I am not sure this is a very recent recording though. The tempos feels for me just right, and the conductor and orchestra brings forth the various shades in the movement superbly.

L2 - I think this is a ok reading as well. The variation in tempos feels bigger than L1. But it doesn't connect between different sections as well as L1.

So my vote is:

L1 > L2.



/Fridden

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks for your last votes.

I should be able to reveal results in group K and P today or on Monday (I'm a little busy at the time...).

I'm still waiting for NorthNYMark (group N), Pat B (group O), Que (group Q).

And anyone can still listen to some groups where votes could be useful I actually quite need votes in group N for instance.

[fridden]

I can listen to one more group.
/fridden

[Jay F]

I can listen again, but I have already done group N.

[Que]

My results for the group appropriately labeled...Q 

So here it goes:

Q1: An ominous, almost Wagnerian/(R.) Straussian style, start of this movement. It all sounds rather luxurious and lush. Not very heart ripping or soul searching, shouldn't be? Conclusion: wow what a sound, and some great, meticulously tailored orchestral playing, but did this conductor get the memo? On what this music is about? I do not get the Mahler feel...and all. This could be easily Eine Alpensinfonie.

Q2: A swift, brisk opening, but again with some low intensity. This opening should grab you right by the throat. Winds are not impressive. The follow up of the different segment feels disjointed, the performance wanders around. Sloppy playing. No, no, let's forget about it.

Q3: Older sonics I had to adjust too after the previous samples. Might be a live performance since the recording balance is rather off. However the quality of the performance, of the three performances this is the one closest to what Mahler is actually about. Intense, melting and heart ripping string playing. But overall the orchestral playing is not all that perfect and groovy.. British orchestra in the old days? The brass is painful to listen to...

So, what to choose? Perfect execution of a performance that doesn't carry the message? (Q1) Or a more idiomatic performance in a somewhat crappy recording and not so perfectly executed? (Q3)
A though one...Q3, I guess, warts and all.

Final verdict: Q3, Q1 and Q2 last.

Q

[Drosera]

In about two days I should have time again to listen to more groups. So if any groups still need evaluation then...

[Sergeant Rock]

Cosi has been absent five days now. Should we be worried?

Sarge

[Jay F]

Cosi has been absent five days now. Should we be worried?

Sarge

Who can say?

[fridden]

Cosi has been absent five days now. Should we be worried?

Sarge

I am worried   

/Fridden

[Madiel]

*bump*

So, this comparison exercise evaporated, which meant I never found which versions of the 2nd symphony were the ones that appealed to me.

Does anyone, by any chance, have any clues as to which recording was which?