Blind comparison : Mahler 2nd symphony [2nd round until March 16]

[Wanderer]

My results for Group F, in order of preference:

1: F2, closely followed by...
2: F1, then following at quite some distance...
3: F3, and a parsec or so away...
4:F4

Very much liked F2 and F1. Wobbly voice in F4 (and in a lesser degree, F3) worked against it the most.

[Drosera]

Group C:

C1 Manages dignity and gravitas without being slow. Not a perfect voice, growing uglier under pressure, but the singer and the conductor are well in tune.

C2 It aims for simplicity, but appears to forget about all the other aspects necessary for a great Urlicht.

C3 Nicely atmospheric orchestral playing, but every time the mezzo starts singing, things get far more prosaic. This is a rather geriatric sounding angel. Not a pretty sound, nor an involving singer.

C4 Oh, what a difference a great mezzo makes! This is supposed to be an angel singing and she certainly sings all the authority of an angel. (Very obvious who she is.) Odd insecurities from the brass. Very natural give and take in the conducting, perfectly in tune with the singer. Gorgeous.

C4 is special, C3 and C1 okay, C2 a failure.

So my order is:

#1: C4
#2: C1
#3: C3
#4: C2

I would be glad to listen to another group now, if you would like me to.

[zauberflöte]

I noticed I forgot to actually name my fourth and least favorite, though process of elimination would have gotten it.
My order was: 1- D1; 2-D3, 3- D2; 4-D4

[Cosi bel do]

Group C

Final ranking

12 voters, and a clear ranking but not a humiliation for C2. The preferences are sometimes close : C2 is last and C4 is first, but the comparison C2/C4 ends with 5 against 6 votes.  Here is the compilation of results and the final ranking :

1. C4 --> seeded for next round
2. C1 --> qualified
3. C3 --> qualified
----
4. C2 --> eliminated

It's very interesting to see that C4, despite unsatisfying sonics and public noise, comes first in this group !

Version C2
Maurice Abravanel, Utah Symphony Orchestra, 4/1967
Florence Kopleff (mezzo-soprano) / Vanguard (or box-set : Music Concepts)

A pioneer version, the Resurrection by Maurice Abravanel stands, almost 50 years later, as one of the strong points of his cycle. A version that I've been insistantly asked to include, and I thought it would be a good challenger after my pre-listenings. It is eliminated without shame, with a good average ranking (2,83, when B1 was eliminated with 3,44).

In this Urlicht, the best thing is that Abravanel keeps a good tempo, a little fast, which is very respectful of the Nicht schleppen on the score (even if this has not pleased to everyone). You also liked the oboe, and 2 different voters (Sylvain-Strauss on classik and John F on CMG) thought they had recognized the soloist from the Wiener Philharmoniker (I thought this coincidence was quite noticeable).

Weaker points are a voice that most of you found insufficiently expressive, despite a nice childish tone), acoustics at the same time too far and not very comfortable, and an orchestra that lacks subtelty in general.

[fridden]

My vote for group G


From bottom to top:

G2 -> Sound is good, and I like the singing but it is sooo slow.
G1 -> This feels better as far as tempo is concerned. I am not too fond of the singing here though. And the sound is not top notch either.
G3 -> This is pretty slow as well, but I like it. It has a better sense of flow than G2 and the sound is pretty good as well. I like the singer as well.
G4 -> My favorite. The sound is good, the singing is good and the tempo feels for me just right, there is more feeling both in the playing and the singing.

So G4->G3->G1->G2

/Fredrik

[Papy Oli]

Quick vote for Group D



Close at the top between D2 and D3, but D2 edges it

Then a big gap until D1 and D4 - both too wobbly and/or weird.

D2 > D3 > D1 > D4

[aukhawk]

I'm glad to see that wobbly does not go down well in these circles.  I thought it was just me. 

[kishnevi]

Three out of three GMG listeners placed D4 last.   I'll be interested to see whom we ganged up on.

[Madiel]

No, you are not correct on this, but more on that later

Apart from that, a few performances that are described by participants as rushed might be in fact quite close to what Mahler intended and asked for when he specifically wrote Nicht schleppen (don't drag) on the orchestral accompaniment...

Just curious, is this on the printed score? Wikipedia only tells me that the movement is marked "Sehr feierlich, aber schlicht". Very solemnly, but simple.

[Madiel]

Anyway, I'm ready to make my comments on Group A. But first let me make a general comment, having familiarity with some of Mahler's works but not this particular one: what a lovely piece of music. Well up to the standards of the best Mahler songs that I know.

Right, here goes.

First choice, by a small margin: A3. To me there's something lovely about the singing here, and the performance in general. There's nuance, but also a lovely warmth to it, and a kind of ecstasy in the latter section of the poem.

Second choice: A4. Oh, that brass at the beginning. It's so achingly sad!! In fact the whole first section up to "Je lieber möcht' ich im Himmel sein" makes me want to weep, and I think this voice contains an element of melancholy longing throughout. At the end of the day, the difference between this and A3 is really just that A3 makes me feel uplifted and is the version I'd be more likely to want to repeat. Whereas A4 is for wallowing.

Third choice: A1. This is enjoyable enough but doesn't have as much contrast between the different parts of the song. It's all at a similar emotional level, and doesn't bring out the angst of "Der Mensch liegt in größter Not! Der Mensch liegt in größter Pein!" versus the hope of the second half.

Fourth choice, and clear loser for me out of this group: A2. The problem is the balance. All I can hear is the voice. It's a very nice voice, but Mahler does absolutely lovely orchestration in his song accompaniments, and it's just drowned out.

[Cosi bel do]

Just curious, is this on the printed score? Wikipedia only tells me that the movement is marked "Sehr feierlich, aber schlicht". Very solemnly, but simple.

Yes. It is actually on the entry after the first verse. So the interventions of wind instruments without the voice are supposed not to be too slow.

Thanks for your vote in A2. We are now waiting for Que and ChamberNut to vote, but if the current result is confirmed this first round would be the time for a big, and even maybe a very big surprise.

[Cosi bel do]

Three out of three GMG listeners placed D4 last.   I'll be interested to see whom we ganged up on.

Votes are over in group D, so results tonight

[Que]

Thanks for your vote in A2. We are now waiting for Que and ChamberNut to vote, but if the current result is confirmed this first round would be the time for a big, and even maybe a very big surprise.

Here are my results for group A

A1 The singing is somewhat matronly and melodramatic, lacks some emotional vigour, the playing is pretty slow but detailed, nuanced and warm. A contemporary recording IMO.

A2 More intense singing in this recording, bringing the message about the condition humaine home. The playing has more fervour but sounds a bit recessed in the background. All in all, nice.

A3 The brass sounds rather "brilliant". The singing has a nice pulse, is intense and excellent, but emotionally somewhat detached - is this Schwarzkopf? Wonderfull playing, old school conducting. This might be the winner...

A4 A rather muffled voice, and once again matronly and a lot a swooping, yikes... And my, my, what is the playing slow.... Message to Mahler conductors: slowness does not give the music more "weight" or intensity, it doesn't, really...

Conclusion: A3 is an easy winner here, followed by A2, A1 and A4.

Q

[Cosi bel do]

Votes are over in group D, so results tonight

I know, I'm late. But I have problem as I have two versions (D1 and D4) absolutely equal at the third place. So I have to think how your votes could eliminate one of these two (there are several methods for the Condorcet method, in such cases), or think about eliminate both... or none... and how it would reflect on the following rounds.

[Cosi bel do]

I'm still waiting for the following votes :
- madaboutmahler : group E
- TheGSMoeller : group F
- Pat B : group F
- NorthNYMark : Group H

[Jay F]

Group A = eleanore-clo, Pipus / ChamberNut, Que, orfeo / -
Group B = Olivier, Asinius Pollion, tod / Pim / Burbage
Group C = math, Resigned / nachtalberich, Drosera / John F
Group D = Sylvain-Strauss, Mélomaniac / Papy Oli, Jeffrey Smith, zauberflöte / -
Group E = gilles78, kegue, Draffin / madaboutmahler / barney
Group F = Horatio / Wanderer, TheGSMoeller, Pat B, aukhawk / -
Group G = aurele, Schmürz / Jay F, fridden / maestro b
Group H = Siegmund, warren 60 / mc ukrneal, NorthNYMark / -

Cosi, why are some of our names in red, and some in black?

Thanks,
Jay

[mc ukrneal]

Cosi, why are some of our names in red, and some in black?

Thanks,
Jay

The red highlighted people are all from GMG. The others are from other forums.

[Jay F]

The red highlighted people are all from GMG. The others are from other forums.

Thank you, mc. I would not have guessed that. Isn't maestro b one of our own?

[mc ukrneal]

Thank you, mc. I would not have guessed that. Isn't maestro b one of our own?

Maybe. But maybe the name was also used at a different forum by someone else. Or maybe he/she posts here and somewhere else under the same name?

[Cosi bel do]

Yes a maestrob is voting on CMG...