Pieces that you generally like that have specific things you hate

[EigenUser]

I'm curious to see if anyone here has pieces that they'd otherwise like except for some specific part(s) or ideas that they can't stand. For example, there are two that I can think of off the top of my head:

1) Messiaen "Turangalila-Symphonie"
I really, really want to like this piece more than I actually do. It has some great orchestral writing, memorable (if a little repetitive) melodies, and I love the Ondes-Martinot (which surprises me, because I don't usually like electronic sounds). It's all of those damn bells in the background! It sounds like an old phone ringing throughout a lot of the piece, and the hammering piano chords don't help, either. I really think that Messiaen's sense of harmony is quite unique in that he uses completely tonal themes shrouded in colorful dissonances (I see what he means when he says he is influenced by stained-glass), but his peculiar enthusiasm for the bells (or glockenspiel, etc.) makes it so hard to hear this (and to listen to, in general). There is this one part at the end that plays that wonderful "love-theme" without the bells, and it is GLORIOUS! Also, the 6th movement has this melody quite a bit, but it sounds like he's trying too hard to emulate Bartok's "night-music".

2) Ligeti's "Chamber Concerto for 13 Instrumentalists"
Ligeti is one of my favorite composers, but what was he thinking when he wrote the second half of the 3rd movement of his Chamber Concerto? I listen to this piece often, but I usually skip to the 4th movement when I get to that awful high-pitched woodwind squeaking section. I think that the "meccanico" style is a really cool effect in the first half, though.

[amw]

I don't think I really "hate" any music. But I cannot listen to Horațiu Rădulescu's Inner Time II for more than a few minutes without my ears starting to bleed... I mean I'm sure it's a very interesting and thought-provoking piece as much of Rădulescu's music is. Seven clarinets playing at the top of their registers for 20+ minutes though is sort of like a dog whistle to me. In general I don't really like ultra high frequencies, especially the electronic sine tone sort of things.

For things I simply don't enjoy as much as the rest of the piece... really, why does Beethoven's 5th take so long to end? Same with the 8th. Great pieces but, seriously Lou, you're overdoing it.

[Brian]

• Editions of Bruckner's Seventh which use the cymbal crash and drum roll in the adagio go on this list, for the cymbal crash and the drumroll.
• Yes, I'll confess: I'm a fan of the last three movements of the Grand Canyon Suite by Ferde Grofe, but not the desert mirage episode.
• The overlong fugue in the finale of Gliere's Third Symphony.
• Also, the fugue in the finale of Tchaikovsky's First.
• I certainly do not hate, but I also do not understand, the abrupt endings of certain movements in Sibelius' Sixth. And I guess the Fifth, except I've grown to love that ending.
• One of Beethoven's Op. 18 quartets has the "Mexican Hat Dance" in it, which always distracts me.

[Pat B]

• One of Beethoven's Op. 18 quartets has the "Mexican Hat Dance" in it, which always distracts me.

How about the Hallelujah Chorus ("And He shall reign for ever and ever") in Mendelssohn's Octet? I wouldn't say I hate it. "Distracts" is a good word for what it does.

[Brahmsian]

Editions of Bruckner's Seventh which use the cymbal crash and drum roll in the adagio go on this list, for the cymbal crash and the drumroll.

*Editions of Bruckner's Seventh which do not include the cymbal crash and/or drum roll in the Adagio. 

*Mahler's 6th symphony with the order of Andante/Scherzo.

*Schumann's 3rd symphony.  As a whole, I love the symphony except for the spaghetti western or John Wayne western style sounding 2nd movement.

[Mirror Image]

This is a hard question in general for me because the whole reason I like a work has to do with what that work sounds like and how I connect with it. If I were to get extremely picky, I would say that I think the Bolero-like section in Shostakovich's Leningrad goes on a bit too long for my tastes. I think as a whole, though, the Leningrad is an amazing achievement.

[EigenUser]

How about the Hallelujah Chorus ("And He shall reign for ever and ever") in Mendelssohn's Octet? I wouldn't say I hate it. "Distracts" is a good word for what it does.

Oh my god, I've played the Octet before and I didn't even notice this. I just hummed the section of the chorus and I know exactly what you mean -- one of the main themes in the last movement. Great, this is one of my favorite pieces of chamber music and now I'll notice this whenever I listen to it.

[Jay F]

I'm mad for Mahler's Seventh Symphony. It's one of my three favorites, the others being the Second and the Sixth. Except I do not like the last movement; listening to it makes me nervous, especially at night, so there are times when I just don't listen to it. I've even made CD-Rs (both Bernsteins) that have just the first four movements.

[Mirror Image]

I'm mad for Mahler's Seventh Symphony. It's one of my three favorites, the others being the Second and the Sixth. Except I do not like the last movement; listening to it makes me nervous, especially at night, so there are times when I just don't listen to it. I've even made CD-Rs (both Bernsteins) that have just the first four movements.

I love Mahler's 7th, too. What is it about the last movement that makes you nervous or puts you on edge?

[Jay F]

I love Mahler's 7th, too. What is it about the last movement that makes you nervous or puts you on edge?

The drums that start it, for one thing. Then the horns coming in as if they have some grand pronouncement to make. It seems pregnant with this pronouncement, but it never quite makes it. It kind of melts away. Then it kind of picks up again, and it makes me anxious.

Also, I'd so much rather go back to the mandolin in the 4th movement. I think it should have gone on much longer.

[Mirror Image]

The drums that start it, for one thing. Then the horns coming in as if they have some grand pronouncement to make. It seems pregnant with this pronouncement, but it never quite makes it. It kind of melts away. Then it kind of picks up again, and it makes me anxious.

Also, I'd so much rather go back to the mandolin in the 4th movement. I think it should have gone on much longer.

The finale has always been a problematic one for many people. I personally don't mind the movement, but I don't think it's one of Mahler's stronger moments. The other movements, however, are just brilliant, especially those Nachtmusik movements.

[Pat B]

Oh my god, I've played the Octet before and I didn't even notice this. I just hummed the section of the chorus and I know exactly what you mean -- one of the main themes in the last movement. Great, this is one of my favorite pieces of chamber music and now I'll notice this whenever I listen to it.

I hope you can still enjoy it. FWIW I think it distracts me less now than it used to.

[Ken B]

Mahler's 8th, up to the first note and after the last are great. All the rest can go.

[ritter]

The finale has always been a problematic one for many people. I personally don't mind the movement, but I don't think it's one of Mahler's stronger moments. The other movements, however, are just brilliant, especially those Nachtmusik movements.

I agree with your statement...the problem, for me, is that the last movement is a sort of "prelude to Die Meistersinger gone mad" (perhaps this has been said before, but it was the feeling I got when I first heard the symphony). This makes the structure of the symphony awkward, and it takes much expertise by a conductor to pull it off convincingly... And perhaps this is one of the causes that has led the Seventh to be regarded by many as Mahler's most "imbalanced" work (I can't find a better term), despite the breathtaking Nachtmusik segments......In any case, I think the really imbalanced work is the Eighth  ...

[Mirror Image]

I agree with your statement...the problem, for me, is that the last movement is a sort of "prelude to Die Meistersinger gone mad" (perhaps this has been said before, but it was the feeling I got when I first heard the symphony). This makes the structure of the symphony awkward, and it takes much expertise by a conductor to pull it off convincingly... And perhaps this is one of the causes that has led the Seventh to be regarded by many as Mahler's most "imbalanced" work (I can't find a better term), despite the breathtaking Nachtmusik segments......In any case, I think the really imbalanced work is the Eighth  ...

Mahler's 8th is my least favorite symphony of his with the 1st coming in right behind it. I think the 9th is really the Mahler symphony as it's almost a perfect encapsulation of everything that he had already done with the symphonic form. I just think the 7th suffers a finale problem, but this doesn't in any way keep me from still rating the symphony highly.

[Cato]

I love Mahler's 7th, too. What is it about the last movement that makes you nervous or puts you on edge?

I recall an interview many moons ago with Bruno Walter, who said he did not conduct the Seventh, because in his opinion it was "weak."

I can agree that it is "problematisch," but in the right hands the symphony can be a success.

On topic: Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream Overture has bothered me in the part where the music has this wonderful build-up, and one expects a great climax, but then the music suddenly gets truncated (to my ears) and just sort of wanders around into the "hee-haw."

I can't say I "hate" that part, but it simply seems that Mendelssohn lost his ear for about 4 to 8 bars or so. 

[Mirror Image]

I recall an interview many moons ago with Bruno Walter, who said he did not conduct the Seventh, because in his opinion it was "weak."

I can agree that it is "problematisch," but in the right hands the symphony can be a success.

In Claudio Abbado's hands, the 7th came alive. His live account with the Berliners on DG was simply out-of-this-world.

[Cato]

In Claudio Abbado's hands, the 7th came alive. His live account with the Berliners on DG was simply out-of-this-world.

3 or 4 years ago or so, I heard an incredible performance on the radio, a re-broadcast of a Chicago Symphony concert with Boulez conducting the Seventh.  I came upon it in the middle of the second movement and thought for a few long seconds I was hearing a lost early work by Anton Webern!    Boulez found things in the score that some conductors have not delineated in their performances.

[bhodges]

Agree with all the praise for Abbado and Boulez in the Mahler Seventh - though I always find the dislike of the Eighth interesting (and maybe slightly amusing), since it's not only one of my favorite Mahler symphonies but one of my favorite pieces, period. 

But to address the thread, just recently I heard Zemlinsky's The Mermaid live (which doesn't happen very often), and though I love its late-Romantic excess, the second movement of the three has a very unsatisfying ending. It's as if he really didn't know how to close, so he just abruptly shuts the movement down. I've heard Chailly and Conlon's recordings - and this time, Andrey Boreyko - and despite their obvious love and expertise, none has been able to do the final few bars convincingly.

--Bruce

[ritter]

Agree with all the praise for Abbado and Boulez in the Mahler Seventh - though I always find the dislike of the Eighth interesting (and maybe slightly amusing), since it's not only one of my favorite Mahler symphonies but one of my favorite pieces, period. 

But to address the thread, just recently I heard Zemlinsky's The Mermaid live (which doesn't happen very often), and though I love its late-Romantic excess, the second movement of the three has a very unsatisfying ending. It's as if he really didn't know how to close, so he just abruptly shuts the movement down. I've heard Chailly and Conlon's recordings - and this time, Andrey Boreyko - and despite their obvious love and expertise, none has been able to do the final few bars convincingly.

--Bruce

Well, the Mahler Eighth issue is one, in my humble opinion, of "imbalance": the heavy-handed Veni Creator first movement, with the chorus singing relentlessly at full blast, and then the lighter, much more developed Faust section (that I admit evolves, towards the end, into something close to the sublime!)... The image that comes to mind for me with the Eighth is something like this (but with the scales  not set in such a way that balance is maintained  ):



Interesting what you say about the ending of the middle movement of Zemlinsky's Mermaid (a work I haven't listened to in many years  . ) I get a similar feeling, but to the opposite effect, with the endings of several works by a composer I greatly admire and enjoy, George Enescu; it's as if he didn't know when to stop, and suddenly the material takes on a wayward nature, which is rather unsettling. This is the impression I get with the (otherwise extraordinary) Piano Quintet op. 29 (the finale più tranquillo), as well as with the (quite beautiful) Piano sonata op. 24, Nr. 3 (the closing allegro con spirito).... You feel like screaming: "Stop it! Please don't go on! You've nothing more to say in this movement!"