Blind Comparison LIGHTNING ROUND: Beethoven's 'Waldstein'!

[Ken B]

With a few hours left...

- nobody has chosen pianist #1 as their favorite OR their least favorite
- pianists 2, 3, and 4 have been listed in every single ballot spot; pianist 5 has been in every spot except (s)he is nobody's third-place choice
- over half of voters chose pianist #6 as their first place
- one of my all-time favorite Beethoven cycles, by pianist #4, is taking a beating
- pianists 2 and 3 are tied

Can we cast strategic conditional votes? I like Kempff, Brendel, and Ashkenazy. If one of them is #4 move #4 up 1 spot in my ranking, that sort of thing?
Nah, better not. But it might be fun watching Brian cope with insanely complicated conditional votes. 

[Brian]

Thanks to sanantonio (whose taste is similar to mine, mostly! thanks for voting for #4!), #2 and #3 are no longer tied... but #4 and #5 ARE tied 

Kempff, Brendel, and Ashkenazy are not in this competition. 

[Todd]

Sound is poor for all samples, meaning I couldn't fully appreciate the playing, especially in dynamics and tone – the dynamic limitations are very obvious in just the first clip.  I also dislike the bleeding chunks approach, but, using a 100 point scale:

1 – 70
2 – 80
3 – 90
4 – 70
5 – 70
6 – 75

3, 2, 6, then a tie between 1, 4 & 5

[amw]

- nobody has chosen pianist #1 as their favorite OR their least favorite

Greg picked #1 as his favourite, back on the first page. Otherwise, it seems to be most people's second favourite. >.>

[mc ukrneal]

It is maddening to talk about results, but not see them all. So here they are....

    Ken B  NJ Joe  Drosera  aukhawk  Trung224  mc ukrneal  Greg  AMW  Ospinbosom  Pim  Pat B  Bogey  DavidW C Sheep  sanantonio  Todd   Cosi  eumyang
1st    6        5          3            2              6               4            1      6              6          3/2    5         6         3             6            1            3       6       2
2nd   3        4          1            6              1               2            6      1              1          3/2    1         5                      1/2           4            2       3       1
3rd    1        6          2            1              3               6                   4              4           1       3         2                      1/2           6           6        2      3
4th    5        3          5            4              2               1                   2              5           6       6         1                        3            5         1/4/5   1/4    5
5th    4        1          4            3              5               3                   5              3           4       2         3                        5            3         1/4/5   1/4    6
6th    2        2          6            5              4               5                   3              2           5       4         4                        4            2         1/4/5    5      4

Let me know if I made a mistake or forgot anyone.

[Cosi bel do]

I sent mine to Brian by mp :

6 > 3 >>> 2 >> 1=4 >>>>>> 5

[eumyang]

I only have time to comment on #4, #5, and #6:

1st: #2
2nd: #1
3rd: #3

4th: #5 - Too much rubato in II.  A bit mushy in places in III.

5th: #6 - Do I hear humming?  Execution a little "sketchy" in a couple of places.  Beginning of III sounds to me like the pianist's touch is too light.  I want the trills smooth when the theme appears above, but with nearly every note from the theme I hear at the same time accents within the trill.  Even if that is Beethoven's intention (I don't have the score in front of me), yuck.  End of c minor episode, I didn't like the slowing down of the unison C's.

6th: #4 - I'm sure that I will get flamed for this, but I don't like live recordings.  The thumping was also distracting.  Also, here and there, too much time was taken between the end of a phrase and the beginning of another.

[Brian]

Results

The scores are generally meaningless; what's important is the differences between the scores.

Here's what the scores are. A recording got 1 point for being 1st, 6 points for being worst, etc., so the more points the lower the listening panel's opinion. With 17 votes counted, 17 would have been a perfect score.

DavidW and Greg submitted partial ballots. In these cases, everybody they did not specify was awarded 2 points for second place. (This did not affect the outcome.)

Sixth place: Pianist #4
73 points

Pianist #4
Good news: "Very strong" - sanantonio "flows nicely and i like the tempo choices except at the start...dynamic changes feel natural" - 0spinboson "Searing live performance. Great spontaneity." - NJ Joe "The melody in the third movement than has a floating style to it" - Neal "an overtly Romantic interpretation" - amw

Bad news: "I noticed lots of tempo fluctuations and hesitations, but on this one, they didn't work for me at all." - Pat B "plays it like Chopin" - Ken B "Episodic and bland" - Drosera "tempo variations and dynamics that I find a bit intrusive" - aukhawk "the pianist doesn't  know how to build the tension in climax, and he uses only one tone with one volume." - trung224 "lacks gracefulness" - Greg "Slow, mannered, affected. Finale is prosaic" - Cosi "I don't like live recordings." - eumyang

Pianist #4 was...



Andrea Lucchesini

-

Fourth place: Pianist #5
71 points
Good news: "Fire, spirit, passion and drama" - NJ Joe "I really shouldn't like this. Tempos are constantly being pushed and pulled." - Pat B

Bad news: "does do some odd things with rhythm and tempo. The control is very good—the technique ends up being a bit muddier than 2" - amw "no subtlety or mystery. In general, I find myself irritated"- Neal "too hard, steelly muscular" - trung224 "a work in progress" and "trying too hard" - Drosera & aukhawk "Virtuosic in spades. Hamelin like?" - Ken B "loud" - 0spinboson "too unevenly played to my taste" - Pim "Pedal everywhere. Everything is blurred, this is awful. Not even a touch of elegance, phrasing is heavy, vulgar, and nothing seems alive here. This is not piano, this is profanation." - Cosi

Pianist #5 was...



Jonathan Biss

-

Fourth place: Pianist #2
63 points
Good news: "either Brendel or Kempff" - Pim "it does sound rather Brendelian" - amw "really explained the music to me in a way the others didn't" - aukhawk "The high point is the way the pianist handles the transition point, very natural and well-thought." - trung224 "This has a more classical feel as opposed to a more romantic approach. " - Neal "proportion, rigor, seriousness and "ordinariness"" - amw "Everything sounds quite logical in this version, which is good, even if the result can sound a little cold." - Cosi

Bad news: "This is the only one I did not find very enjoyable" - sanantonio "In my notes I wrote "something is missing here" 3 different times." - Pat B "playing at start of excerpt feels a bit rushed; because the left hand is playing so much more loudly than the right during loud passages momentum is lost a few times." - 0spinboson "a tad underpowered. A tad sewing machine." - Ken B "a bit mechanical, with what seemed at times like banging on the keys." - NJ Joe "Almost dreaming. There are few strong contrasts" - Drosera "too all-or-nothing most of the time, louds are too loud, quiets too quiet." - amw "too straightforward and direct." - Greg "The second movement comes across as too fast." - amw

Pianist #2 is...



Jean-Efflam Bavouzet

-

Third place: Pianist #3
58 points
Good news: "Great one, natural playing with good taste." - trung224 "The pianist obviously completely in his element. Beethoven specialist." - Drosera "Magnificent slow movement." - NJ Joe "had a live feel, which I liked. The performance is the sort whose fans call it "subtle" and whose detractors call it "underplayed." If Richter had played the Waldstein" - Pat B "With this kind of elegant, neat, perfect articulation, isn't this Gilels ?" - Cosi

Bad news: "odd with unnecessary changes in tempo" - amw "The beginning is how it should be played if you ask me. The crescendo was wtf" - Greg "This one is a bit of a Jekyl and Hyde for me." - Neal "seems a bit rushed overall, pianist doesn't seem to understand that pauses can also help to create contrast" - 0spinboson

Pianist #3 is...



Emil Gilels

Second place: Pianist #1
48 points
Good news: "a relatively straightforward reading, but very well done." - Pat B "Pedaling choices agree with me, dynamics vary nicely." - 0spinboson "very slow seeming at first, emerging from the mist, Very very controlled. A thought out performance." - Ken B "Powerful, clear left hand. 3rd movement flows beautifully." - NJ Joe "Good rather than great, although it does grow on you." - Drosera "fluid, sweet toned, very even delivery" - aukhawk "I love the velvet sound in piano notes the pianist creates" - trung224 "strikingly graceful" - Greg "A solid performance never losing sight of the larger structure. I like it." - amw "Original (but weird) articulation, pedal, phrasing....Sounds like Gould, indeed." - Cosi

Bad news: "trying to be Glenn Gould without Glenn Gould's technique" - amw "the stop and start (use of silence) are too abrupt....played too deliberately" - Neal "not really enough power when needed" - Greg

Pianist #1 is...



James Brawn

-

First place: Pianist #6
44 points
Neal and amw speculated (however briefly) that James Brawn and pianist #6 might be the same person at different times in their career.

Good news: "the best balance of freedom and strictness, best use of piano sonority" - amw "combines most of the  good quality of other performances" - trung224 "Beautiful ringing tone.  The music shines." - NJ Joe "Easy winner. Reminds me of Brendel." - Ken B "nicely flowing. Well-timed pauses" - 0spinboson "a little intellectual, but this is such a great vision. this is a symphony for piano solo. Of course it is Serkin" - Cosi

Bad news: "maybe a tad too slow" - Greg "a bit too pipe-and-slippers" - aukhawk "Cautious, deliberate and dull. Nothing much is happening here." - Drosera "not overly exciting" - Pim "a sense of delicacy (making it my other guess for Kempff), but there were some choices of dynamics and sustains that didn't make any sense to me." - Pat B "I want the trills smooth when the theme appears above, but with nearly every note from the theme I hear at the same time accents within the trill." - eumyang

Pianist #6 is indeed...



Rudolf Serkin

[Ken B]

Well I feel I dodged the look-like-an-idiot bullet. There's always next time. My choice was 6,3,1 so the rest of you were only a little bit off 

I had never heard any of these. I will think about buying Serkin, and I will feel smug about not buying Bavouzet's Debussy.

[Ken B]

This was a lot of fun, and thanks to Brian for all the work.

[Pat B]

"If Richter had played the Waldstein" - Pat B

The rest of that sentence was, "this is what it would have not sounded like" (emphasis added). Incidentally this is the only one of the 6 that I have.

No HJ Lim?

Anyway, thanks for running this. I'm adding Biss to my list, and I'm sure I'll get Serkin at some point.

[Ken B]

Having read the comments I declare Cosi the winner. He identified first and third --and he agreed with me on the second place being Gouldish. Impressive display.

[DavidW]

Knowing the names I still stand by my preference.  By names if given a choice I would go with Gilels.  I'm not interested in any of the other pianists, including Serkin.  I've never heard of those other four pianists before.

Thanks Brian.

[amw]

Hmm. James Brawn has potential. Andrea Lucchesini should do a Schubert or Schumann cycle, perhaps on period instruments; I would definitely enjoy that more than his Beethoven. Emil Gilels was much less Russian than I expected.

No revelations here, but this was interesting—thanks.

[trung224]

   Thanks for this intersting thread, Brian. I don't know much about James Brawn, but after this test, I will order his CD.
   Speaking about sound-quality of clip, I found clip #3 (Gilels) suffered too much from the blur sound, compared to DGG CD , which I coincidently listened yesterday  (without knowing that is '#3). This poor sound almost kill Gilels's astonishing piano tone, and reduced its ranking.

[aukhawk]

I'll add my thanks - that was good fun, and personally I shall certainly explore Bavouzet's recordings further.

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks Brian for the good work.
I would have liked if there had been a Brendel or a Kempff in this little selection. Just to see their fans thrashing them without knowing

[Drosera]

Nice to see my preferences more or less confirmed. I've always loved Gilels in Beethoven, but never been convinced by Serkin with this composer (yet).

Thanks Brian!

[Pim]

Thanks a lot Brian. I really enjoyed this.

My ranking was: 3 = 2 > 1 > 6 > 4 > 5
My lessons learned:
- Either I have to get the Bavouzet or re-listen to all cycles of Brendel again (and with more attention), just to avoid confusing those two in the future. I think I’ll go for option 1….
- I’m happy to turn out to like Gilels
- I acquired the Serkin set only a couple of weeks ago, but wasn’t really thrilled by what I heard so far, so at least here I seem to be consistent
- Kempff….what can I do about Kempff? Shutting up is probably the wisest 

Oh, and hat off to Cosi

[mc ukrneal]

Very interesting. Some thoughts:
- This confirms my disappointment with Gilels. You may remember I bought that set a year ago and couldn't believe how bad I thought it was. I had put it to the side in hopes it was a timing issue or something, but I really don't hear great Beethoven from him in that set.
- Lucchesini is a new name for me. Interesting that only a handful of us liked him.
- I don't understand the comments from others about 'dodging a bullet' or 'not wanting to look stupid'. We like what we like (at least at a given moment) and there is no shame in disliking a big name or liking a newcomer. This is the beauty of the blind listen - we are not prejudiced by the name attached, but instead listen to the music they make.
- I had wishlisted that Serkin, but based on what I heard I won't be rushing out to get it, so money saved!
- These lightning rounds can be just as interesting (and in some ways more) than the longer contests. Plus nice to have piano for a change. Nice work Brian!