Gabriel Fauré (Faure)

[Guido]

I was about to posit exactly the same question as you Scarpia when I saw your post.

Why is it so rarely mentioned or performed? Its so late - everything else from this period is Great with a capital G so I'm curious.

[Guido]

As with most opera I don't like all of it but it's got some wonderful stuff in it, i'd recommend the recording that was mentioned on the previous page.

OK cheers James. I'll check it out.

Opera as a genre didn't do anything for me for a long time, but actually seeing it on the stage (Le Grand Macabre, Bluebeard's Castle, Jenufa) changed all that.

[snyprrr]

Sorry, but I'm going to totally open up the can o' worms that is the SQ.  I'm just writing this post for my own convenience later. So far I've come up with:

Valvet
ProArte
Loewenguth (Vox; 1966)
Parrenin(EMI; late '60s, early '70s?)

Via Nova (Erato)
Viotti
Medici (Nimbus)
Rosamunde (Pierre Verany)
Stanford (w/Bridge and Milhaud)
Gaggini (w/Tournmier(?) and Chausson)

Parisii
Leipizer (MDG; with Ravel(?) and Caplet (Conte Fantatsque))
Ysaye I ("live @Wigmore)
Ysaye II (w/Magnard)
Dante (Hyperion; w/Franck)

Miami
Ebene

Ad Libitum (Naxos)



I'm going to hold off for now until I get a few more compares in, but I just got the Ebene from the library today. Yea, it's pretty fine altogether (incl. the Debussy and Ravel), but, as I was comparing with the Miami I noticed a lot of give and take between the two in terms of perceived correctness. I almost wish someone would just get over the hump and make a suuuper slow version, instead of everyone just playing around it. I mean, I'm not complaining; I'm starting to think that the music is written in such a way that it is "elastic" and needs some kind of "pulling", like taffy, which everyone does, of course, but in their own way.

A funny thing that the Ebene take 6:30 in the first mvmt., and sound pretty slow in the first few notes, and the Loewenguth clock in at 7:04 and yet are playing faster???Whaaat? Very interesting! The Miami clock in at 5:40, which is ok if you're playing the first mvmt. in the "fast" mode (though, it could be a touch quicker perhaps, if there was a group light enough out there). The Ebene sound like they're taking the "slow" road, but like I said, they're not really. I could imagine someone playing this around 8:00; that might be slow enough to truly pull the taffy, haha.

Seriously, I do wonder, was Faure a narcotic, or opium user, or anything?,... I'm just thinking his music seems to come out of "that" kind of suspended tempo, like, you reallly have to make every single not bleed its' fluffy little pink cloud to make it sound right. This music sounds so perfectly tortured.

In the slow mvmt. the Ebene take the "slow" road (though, not slow enough for me), whereas the Miami and Loewenguth take the "fast" road. The Ebene and Miami both clock in at 7:46 in the finale, and here the differences are interesting (more later). I have seen finales go up to 9:00, which, I find pretty slow indeed.

Hopefully I will get to the bottom of this soon.

I just wish someone did it my way, wah !

[snyprrr]

I just got that Magnard/Faure disc everyone else seems to have, and my, it is very well recorded, isn't it?

So I'm comparing the slow mvmt. between the Ebene, Miami, Loewenguth, & Ysaye, and it appears the madness has only just begun. At this point, the Ebene (10:06)are the only I have that take the "slow" road, though, for me, they don't take it just quite slow enough to really milk every note (which is why one would play it in "slow" mode).

The Miami (8:30)are the opposite, playing faster, yet perhaps not as silvery as one might want to be if one were to be playing this slow mvmt in the "fast" mode. They just about get the palpitating just so. They have a little extra passion in places that's winning. Still, I'm left with a desire for just a little more something.

The Ysaye (8:59) get the palpitations just there in the excited heartbeat mode. They pull every note of the music just enough, without any affectation, really. They definitely sound like a yearning little forest creature. And the plush recording sets the music in the best possible acoustic (not too much).

The Loewenguth (9:42), at just a hair slower than the Ysaye, seem to get the architectural timing just so, very square and understandable, yet of course don't give as much pleasure in the recording department. There is a little harshness in the big yearning climaxes. I find myself not wanting to hear through to the end.

I think I saw that the Gaggini clock in around 11mins. Who knows, at that speed, what revelations might be in store? If one plays it right, the music is of such quality that I think it can withstand the stretching. Perhaps it's this elastic quality that makes this music so difficult to nail?

There are still a couple of versions I'd like to hear, but, at this point, I think the Ysaye's sound gives them a slight edge over the Ebene (the Ebene are a little farther away,...just a touch; the Ysaye are right there). I think overall, too, the Ysaye have just a little more passion here. The Ebene do have a certain sublimity though; and, of course, their entire album makes for a pretty perfect picture (how did they get over 80mins??). Frankly, I think the Magnard is a better discmate for the Faure.

The more I listen to this slow mvmt, the more I just want to hear every note milked to the ultimate.

[SonicMan46]

Now playing CD2 from this set, which arrived from MDT early in the week ...

   

Stuart - are you enjoying this set?

I have the 'complete set' of these works w/ Kathryn Stott (image inseted above) - I thought that I was OK w/ a fine collection, then others complained about Stott (possibly, Todd?) - another pianist appeared on my 'wish list' including Doyen (not available?) - so now I'm confused, i.e. love Faure's Piano Music but I want the BEST interpretation - any help from our members?  Please - Dave - 

[Coopmv]

Stuart - are you enjoying this set?

I have the 'complete set' of these works w/ Kathryn Stott (image inseted above) - I thought that I was OK w/ a fine collection, then others complained about Stott (possibly, Todd?) - another pianist appeared on my 'wish list' including Doyen (not available?) - so now I'm confused, i.e. love Faure's Piano Music but I want the BEST interpretation - any help from our members?  Please - Dave - 

Indeed, this set by Collard has been quite good and I have had no experience with Collard prior to this set.  I am hoping to pick up the Chopin Nocturnes by Kathryn Stott.  She is a frequent concert partner with Yo Yo Ma who I do not particularly like as a cellist, i.e. he over-romanticized many works ...

[Scarpia]

Stuart - are you enjoying this set?

I have the 'complete set' of these works w/ Kathryn Stott (image inseted above) - I thought that I was OK w/ a fine collection, then others complained about Stott (possibly, Todd?) - another pianist appeared on my 'wish list' including Doyen (not available?) - so now I'm confused, i.e. love Faure's Piano Music but I want the BEST interpretation - any help from our members?  Please - Dave - 

There is nothing wrong with Stott, although I am somewhat put off by the fact that the piano she is using seems to have a bad hammer in some of the recordings.    The Collard set, which is licensed from EMI is also top notch.  I have the EMI edition of these recordings and one problem is that the audio engineering makes the piano sound a bit to bright and brittle for my taste.

Doyen is somewhat of a mystery, it was recorded by Erato, disappeared from the catalog almost immediately, has never been reissued, and seems to have sold very poorly, judging by how rarely a used copy turns up.  I'll admit to being curious about it.  If you want to hear Doyen in Faure there is an inexpensive issue chamber music featuring Doyen playing Faure



Erato seems to put much more faith in their Hubeau cycle, which is now available in an attractive and inexpensive edition.



I've not heard it, but I am concerned that Hubeau may have been past his prime when these recordings were made.

[SonicMan46]

There is nothing wrong with Stott, although I am somewhat put off by the fact that the piano she is using seems to have a bad hammer in some of the recordings.    The Collard set, which is licensed from EMI is also top notch.  I have the EMI edition of these recordings and one problem is that the audio engineering makes the piano sound a bit to bright and brittle for my taste.

Doyen is somewhat of a mystery..........................

Hello Scarpia - thanks for the comments above - guest that I'll stick w/ Stott until something newer comes along - not diasspointed at all by her perfromances - Dave   

[Florestan]

Another vote for Stott here.

[Josquin des Prez]

Hi James - interested in your comment on the Jean Doyen 'Solo Piano' offering - seems to be not available on Amazon USA - have not check 'off shore' yet; now I own Kathryn Stott's 4-CD box set which has received some excellent but mixed reviews (purchased this for just over $20 from BRO, so not a big investment and could be persuaded to change); the Collard Brilliant set has received some 'high fives' also!

The Jean Doyen is the definitive set. I like it better then either the Kathryn Scott (too mechanical) or the Jean-Philippe Collard (too damn boring at times). IMHO at any rate.

[71 dB]

The Jean Doyen is the definitive set.

Too bad that set is £57.02+shipping on amazon.  I'll be happy with the few Naxos discs I have.

Ever since I came to this forum all this talk about the best performances have driven me crazy. In popular music things are so easy, there is usually one version and that's it. In classical music it is a mess. Am I the only one who finds this mind-boggling?

[Scarpia]

Doyen is out of print, there had been one used copy on amazon.com, now it is gone, perhaps someone from this site bought it.  As far as I have been able to find, the number of used copies available in all of the global amazon sites can be counted on one hand, all at unreasonable prices.  We couldn't all get copies even if we were willing to spend the money.  If you find the set on any amazon site, there will be only one customer review or more likely no customer reviews at all.   In the software business this would be called "vaporware."  The rare people that have a copy can inflate their self-perceived prestige by claiming it is the definitive version.  Since no one can find a copy, who can disagree?

The fact is that when Erate decided to release a Faure complete piano set the passed over Doyen and release their Hubeau set instead.   If they decide to release Doyen at an attractive price point I'd be interested, but I think the prospects are dim (do they need two Faure cycles in their catalog?).  If it turns up on one of those illegal downloading sites I'd be tempted.  But until then, Stott is superb, Collard is a welcome contrast.

In any case, there is also a Paul Crossley cycle, now also out of print.   

[abidoful]

I like Faure. I always thought of him as a miniaturist little bit in the way Chopin was, and so I was little surprised when I found out he did compose also operas (more than one?).
Somehow his works for solo piano have left me quite cold (perhaps not so good performances??)  but I was charmed, I remember, when I first- a long time ago- heard some of he's songs (a la fontaine, apres un reve). Such sweet music; interesting, delicious!
Then I found out that he had composed quite a few chamber works and so I listened them. Wow...! Nice pieces for violin and piano (a berceuse) and a lovely Trio.

Faure is astonishingly melodic; not just one great tune, but quite a few- songs, Trio, violin pieces...

Looking forward to  have a more fuller knowledge of his work- to know him also as an orchestral composer. Anyway, a fascinating musical personality, perhaps reminding little Edward Grieg-sort of lyric- but in the light of his chamber works, the description "Brahms of France" seems also justified.  He seems to have been  one of those who also continued the great tradition of Chopin in his piano Barcarolles, Nocturnes, preludes and Impromptus...

[listener]

I like Faure. I always thought of him as a miniaturist little bit in the way Chopin was, and so I was little surprised when I found out he did compose also operas (more than one?).

2 operas: Promethée  op. 12   that I've not seen a recording of, and Pénélope that was on Erato

[Scarpia]

...and Pénélope that was on Erato

Unfortunately it was directed by Dutoit, who has a unique talent for tuning champagne into apple sause.

[Herman]

I have Doyen in the chamber music disc, and his Piano Trio is quite good.

I have Hubeau in the complete chamber music, and it's good, but it has as yet not totally won me over. Obviously this could have several reasons.

If you're looking for piano solo I would indeed not be frustrated about inobtainable recordings one or two people claim to be the ultimate. What I would do (and have done) is get Eric Heidsieck's cd with the complete Nocturnes, available in Japan, and relax. And then you can get the other Heidsieck recordings.

[abidoful]

Somehow his works for solo piano have left me quite cold (perhaps not so good performances??)

Perhaps I should try Jean-Philipp Collard. He was playing on those discs of Faure's chamber music and was very good.

Wow...! Nice pieces for violin and piano (a berceuse)

Faure is astonishingly melodic; not just one great tune, but quite a few- songs, Trio, violin pieces...

I looked, and noticed that this Berceuse is a version for violin and piano of the slow movement of his Violin Concerto (!)----- Faure wrote A VIOLIN CONCERTO?!? He keeps surprising me Does anyone actually know that piece?

[Scarpia]

Perhaps I should try Jean-Philipp Collard. He was playing on those discs of Faure's chamber music and was very good.I looked, and noticed that this Berceuse is a version for violin and piano of the slow movement of his Violin Concerto (!)----- Faure wrote A VIOLIN CONCERTO?!? He keeps surprising me Does anyone actually know that piece?

Don't get to excited, just a fragment.  I have it on a Hyperion disc of "French rarities" I believe.

[abidoful]

Don't get to excited, just a fragment.  I have it on a Hyperion disc of "French rarities" I believe.

So it's little like his Symphony, only a fragment? Oh, what a shame- I was already wating for something like another Sibelius Violin Concerto 

[Herman]

Balanchine incorporated the Pelléas sicilienne in the first, green part of Jewels, entirely set to Fauré's music, Emeralds. It's the part I love best, and I'm rather suprised there is none of Emeralds on youtube, even though tere's a Paris version of the ballet on DVD.