B Flat Flutes in England c. 1800

[kishnevi]

A slight conundrum thrown out on Facebook by a composer cyberacquaintance whose day job is  music librarian.

He's now dealing with sheet music and parts whose origin he gives as c. 1800 England,  which feature a couple of oddities.  Linguistically, they use the term "sonnet" for poems which are definitely not sonnets in the usual sense.  Musically, and the point I am hoping someone here may shed some light, is the appearance of parts transcribed in B flat for flutes.  (Some of the guitar parts are also transcribed in B flat.)
The instruments involved are apparently the standard transverse flute, not recorders.  He's trying to get an idea of the whys and wherefores of how this music would be performed in such a version.

Any ideas that occur to your esteemed minds will be forwarded to him.

[some guy]

Dunno about the flutes, but the word "sonnet" had been used for hundreds of years before that to designate all sorts of poems that aren't 14-lined ones with a particular rhyme scheme.

There were some 12 line poems that were called sonnets.

And at least one that was 140 some lines, as I recall.

There's a poem a hundred years old or less that is a sonnet in every way except for having no rhyme scheme. I no longer have any of my books (long story) and so cannot look that one up for you. When I'm reunited with some of them, the one that has that poem in it will be one of the some.

If you care.

[kishnevi]

Re:  Sonnets
There seems to be a good deal of playing around with the traditional form of the sonnet in the 20th century.  Wikipedia mentions several poets who could be responsible for the rhyme-less sonnet you mention, starting with W H Auden in 1928; Robert Lowell wrote five books full of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnet
There does seem to be a time early on when "sonnet" was almost a synonym for "poem", but from Tudor times until the early 20th century,  it seems to been used only for the classic form of fourteen rhymed lines.  Be that as it may, my own guess is that either the texts represent translations from Italian and French originals,  or the term was simply used as an alternate word for 'poem'.

[Ken B]

There was a young man from Gonnet
Who wrote what he thought was a sonnet
But it had nine parts
So for all his smarts
What he wrote was really a nonet.

[jochanaan]

I haven't heard of a Bb flute, but it doesn't surprise me. There,s a story about one of the British orchestras, that all of its original members played flute! Clarinets and penny whistles come in many keys...

[DaveF]

First thought that comes to mind is that the music is for military band, in which pretty well everything is in B flat (although I can't imagine that guitars were ever part of military bands).

If the flute parts are transcribed into Bb, that presumably means that the instrument is actually in D.  This is probably irrelevant, but there was a descant recorder in D, confusingly known as a "sixth flute" (sounding a major 6th above the standard treble recorder) for which Bach writes in BWV 103, which being in B minor would be unplayable on a descant recorder in C.  Perhaps there were also traversi in D.

[kishnevi]

Dave thanks for the suggestion.  The songs have texts, ergo were meant to be sung, and that probably rules out a military band, even before you get to the guitar.

[jochanaan]

First thought that comes to mind is that the music is for military band, in which pretty well everything is in B flat...

I've played flute for lots of band music but I never saw a Bb flute part.

If the flute parts are transcribed into Bb, that presumably means that the instrument is actually in D...

Actually, it probably works the opposite way.  "Flute in Bb" means that if you play a C, it comes out Bb.  So the parts would be transposed into D for a piece in C.