The Nielsen Nexus

Started by BachQ, April 12, 2007, 10:10:00 AM

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Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
As in the first time you've seen the CNW numbers?
Aye.



QuoteYeah, it's kind of the new standard thing apparently. It's one of those catalogues where it's chronological within a category, which I don't entirely love. Although it does end up highlighting that songs represent a huge amount of Nielsen's output.

http://www5.kb.dk/dcm/cnw/navigation.xq

Thanks!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Symphonic Addict

https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-ybbl7fdw

A performance of the Symphony No. 3 arranged for two pianos by the composer. It's very nice to hear it as a curiosity, but it's not something necessarily essential we were missing.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky


Karl Henning

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 01, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-ybbl7fdw

A performance of the Symphony No. 3 arranged for two pianos by the composer. It's very nice to hear it as a curiosity, but it's not something necessarily essential we were missing.

Thanks, Very interesting.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Symphonic Addict

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Symphonic Addict

A stellar performance of Nielsen's Flute Concerto. What a piece. It's interesting to notice how Nielsen was becoming for that time. The orchestration of this concerto is rather sober, benefiting low registers (2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, 1 trombone, timpani and strings). Regarding the main melody of the 1st movement, I can claim that Nielsen knew how to write a good tune!

https://www.youtube.com/v/JtGvRXUWuu8
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 21, 2021, 07:29:09 PM
A stellar performance of Nielsen's Flute Concerto. What a piece. It's interesting to notice how Nielsen was becoming for that time. The orchestration of this concerto is rather sober, benefiting low registers (2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, 1 trombone, timpani and strings). Regarding the main melody of the 1st movement, I can claim that Nielsen knew how to write a good tune!

https://www.youtube.com/v/JtGvRXUWuu8

The Flute Concerto is a masterpiece, but, then again, so is the Clarinet Concerto. I'm still warming up to the Violin Concerto, but I do think it's a fine work. It seems writing for wind instruments was more of a Nielsen specialty.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 21, 2021, 07:38:42 PM
The Flute Concerto is a masterpiece, but, then again, so is the Clarinet Concerto. I'm still warming up to the Violin Concerto, but I do think it's a fine work. It seems writing for wind instruments was more of a Nielsen specialty.

Most definitely, John. It's a shame Nielsen couldn't write the other concertos for oboe, bassoon and horn respectively as he had intended.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 22, 2021, 12:43:00 PM
Most definitely, John. It's a shame Nielsen couldn't write the other concertos for oboe, bassoon and horn respectively as he had intended.

Indeed. The same I could say about Debussy's unfinished sonatas for various instruments. :'(

Karl Henning

If I ever have occasion to compose a Bassoon Concerto, I'll be thinking, What would Carl have done?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

MusicTurner

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 22, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
If I ever have occasion to compose a Bassoon Concerto, I'll be thinking, What would Carl have done?

8)

Pohjolas Daughter

A question for anyone:  I was trying to find a bit more about Nielsen's Violin Concerto and looked on Wiki.  It says there that it was "written for Hungarian violinist Dr. Emil Telmányi, Nielsen's son-in-law, in 1911". 

In the liner notes, however, it mentions that "he [Nielsen] never envisaged himself as soloist, and it was the foremost Danish violinist of the day, Peder Møller, who, having learned the work in a fortnight, made it an instant success."

So, I'm curious as to why Dr. Telmányi wasn't the one who premiered it?  Did something happen to him?  Or their relationship?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

VonStupp

#1212
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 26, 2021, 10:45:37 AM
A question for anyone:  I was trying to find a bit more about Nielsen's Violin Concerto and looked on Wiki.  It says there that it was "written for Hungarian violinist Dr. Emil Telmányi, Nielsen's son-in-law, in 1911". 

In the liner notes, however, it mentions that "he [Nielsen] never envisaged himself as soloist, and it was the foremost Danish violinist of the day, Peder Møller, who, having learned the work in a fortnight, made it an instant success."

So, I'm curious as to why Dr. Telmányi wasn't the one who premiered it?  Did something happen to him?  Or their relationship?

PD

Here is an interesting preface concerning the VC:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf

There is no mention of the dedication, but the linked preface to the VC score alludes to Nielsen having Møller in mind to perform, even whilst composing it, and Møller was its sole performer until Telmányi arrived in 1918.

It appears from 1918 on, the year Telmányi moved to Denmark to wed Nielsen's daughter, Telmányi was most prolific in performing the VC and seemed integral in getting it published, even cleaning up later editions after Nielsen's death, so they must have continued to be on good terms.

However, it does say a performance for Nielsen's 60th birthday (1925) was played by Møller instead of Telmányi, and the daughter thought it a bit of a slight against him.

No mention seems to be made of Telmányi and Nielsen's relationship before his daughter's marriage in this particular article. I wonder if the dedication you quote above happened at its first publication in 1919 or later??

You can see the mention of Telmányi towards the bottom of the score (in small print!). VS

"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: VonStupp on November 26, 2021, 11:12:34 AM
Here is an interesting preface concerning the VC:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf

There is no mention of the dedication, but the linked preface to the VC score alludes to Nielsen having Møller in mind to perform, even whilst composing it, and Møller was its sole performer until Telmányi arrived in 1918.

It appears from 1918 on, the year Telmányi moved to Denmark to wed Nielsen's daughter, Telmányi was most prolific in performing the VC and seemed integral in getting it published, even cleaning up later editions after Nielsen's death, so they must have continued to be on good terms.

However, it does say a performance for Nielsen's 60th birthday (1925) was played by Møller instead of Telmányi, and the daughter thought it a bit of a slight against him.

No mention seems to be made of Telmányi and Nielsen's relationship before his daughter's marriage in this particular article. I wonder if the dedication you quote above happened at its first publication in 1919 or later??

You can see the mention of Telmányi towards the bottom of the score (in small print!). VS


I thought that I had replied to you, but must not have hit "post"--or something happened.  :-[  In any event, thank you for that link.  Part of my posting was that (I think that it was on page xxiii?) that Telmányi might have done some of his own "editing" [as in changes and as in without Nielsen's approval] along with correcting the composer's own original score/wishes.  That's part of what I gleaned from it.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

MusicTurner

He did a lot of suggestions to Nielsen and revising attempts afterwards, also seen in the score he owned, and the conclusion among Danish scholars is that at least his later attempts at editing were not according to Nielsen's wishes (I'm too lazy to check how many, but there are at least two Telmanyi performances of the concerto available, with Busch 1951, and with Egisto Tango).

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on November 29, 2021, 06:01:29 AM
He did a lot of suggestions to Nielsen and revising attempts afterwards, also seen in the score he owned, and the conclusion among Danish scholars is that at least his later attempts at editing were not according to Nielsen's wishes (I'm too lazy to check how many, but there are at least two Telmanyi performances of the concerto available, with Busch 1951, and with Egisto Tango).
Thanks for the information regarding the performances.  And regarding your comments, that was basically the impression that I was getting too.  :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

VonStupp

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 29, 2021, 05:48:20 AM
I thought that I had replied to you, but must not have hit "post"--or something happened.  :-[  In any event, thank you for that link.  Part of my posting was that (I think that it was on page xxiii?) that Telmányi might have done some of his own "editing" [as in changes and as in without Nielsen's approval] along with correcting the composer's own original score/wishes.  That's part of what I gleaned from it.

PD

Yeah, I wonder if he rode on father-in-law's coattails postmortem, and tinkered too much. Curious if the original publication is the one that is performed or Telmányi's further edits.

VS
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: VonStupp on November 30, 2021, 08:41:17 AM
Yeah, I wonder if he rode on father-in-law's coattails postmortem, and tinkered too much. Curious if the original publication is the one that is performed or Telmányi's further edits.

VS
Perhaps haul out your ouija board and ask him?  ;)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

MusicTurner

#1218
There's been 1) a 1919 score of the Violin Concerto, with a confusing history and some obvious errors, but acknowledged by Nielsen; 2) Telmanyi's revised score from 1949, correcting some of the errors but also being too 'creative'; and 3) the new, official Carl Nielsen Edition score from 2002, reflecting the best current knowledge as regards both correctness and authenticity. Supposedly, recordings after 2002 would be the new, improved edition then.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on November 30, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
There's been 1) a 1919 score of the Violin Concerto, with a confusing history and some obvious errors, but acknowledged by Nielsen; 2) Telmanyi's revised score from 1949, correcting some of the errors but also being too 'creative'; and 3) the new, official Carl Nielsen Edition score from 2002, reflecting the best current knowledge as regards both correctness and authenticity. Supposedly, recordings after 2002 would be the new, improved edition then.
Thank you for your research!  :)  Will have to check and see when my recording is from, but first guess pre-2002.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter