The Nielsen Nexus

Started by BachQ, April 12, 2007, 10:10:00 AM

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Moonfish

Quote from: karlhenning on June 21, 2015, 06:09:29 AM
The symphonies didn't grab me the first time I listened to them.  (Same story with the RVW symphonies, FWIW.)  Years later, they clicked with me, big time.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
That's quite interesting. Nielsen was one of the first composers that I got into (along with Sibelius). In fact, I discovered Nielsen at the same time I discovered Sibelius, which I suppose is quite a natural progression as it really does seem one leads to another. They are the two top Nordic composers of their time and obviously still have quite a foothold in the musical world. Yes, I think you being more and more exposed to other 20th Century composers has allowed you to come back around to Nielsen with 'different ears.' This has happened with me on numerous occasions with Holmboe perhaps being the greatest example.

So what works of Nielsen's are you going to explore next?

I read on the Martinon back cover that Nielsen was regarded as Scandinavia's greatest composer ( ??? ??? ???) when the 4th Symphony premiered! It is hard to imagine that Sibelius was viewed as secondary (at least in my mind).  Sibelius has been in my life since I was a little kid. Finlandia impressed me greatly as a ten-year old! I listened to it over and over.  In contrast I had didn't hear about Nielsen until I was in my 30s. Somehow he seems to be a very specific niche within classical music (unless one is Danish of course).   Like Karl and yourself I noticed Nielsen years ago, but never took a liking to his works as I sampled them.  I think the 5th with its snare drum was the nail in the coffin at the time.    :'(     

I think I will dig up Bernstein's partial cycle from the Symphony box for my next few Nielsen sessions. Probably the 2nd...   :P
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

jlaurson

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Get it! I have it... I've never been moved by Nielsen like I have by Schmidt (Gilbert comes close). It's really quite amazing how the oldest cycle out there is still so darn awesome and, arguably / in some ways, the best.

Mirror Image

Quote from: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 01:59:14 PM
Get it! I have it... I've never been moved by Nielsen like I have by Schmidt (Gilbert comes close). It's really quite amazing how the oldest cycle out there is still so darn awesome and, arguably / in some ways, the best.

But what about the sound quality, Jens? FYI, I didn't like Gilbert's Nielsen cycle, although I haven't heard the concerti recording (yet). :) For modern cycles, Oramo is my man in these symphonies right now.

Moonfish

#364
3x
Nielsen: Symphony No 1        Royal Liverpool PO/Bostock

A "relatively" first listen (i.e. I have heard it before but paid more attention this time around). I guess I should blame the recent listening activity here as well as Nielsen's birthday on June 9. The theme of the first movement really stays in the mind. Such a playful tune! The second movement has such serene and nostalgic qualities conjuring up all kinds of pastoral images and a fair amount of sadness in my mind. It builds very nicely as well. The final movement kind of falls flat in my ears. Overall, a very enjoyable and eloquent symphony well worth listening to. It made a definite impression after listening to it three times in a row. Bostock and the RLPO seem to have received mixed reviews, but I found the performance and the sound quality quite satisfying in this recording of Nielsen's first symphony.

I'm not quite sure why I haven't paid much attention to it (and Nielsen's other works). After all he is Denmark's greatest composer. When I grew up Grieg and Sibelius were always mentioned, but Nielsen's name remained in obscurity (actually - he wasn't mentioned at all  :o).  I guess I will have to make up for lost time!   8)

"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Nielsen is always worth your time, Peter. As I may have mentioned to you before, Nielsen was one of the first composers I was exposed to when I was just getting into classical music six years ago. Everything I've heard from has never been less than inspired and there's always a purpose to his music. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. ;D

Moonfish

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Yeah, I have been reading up on this as well and it seems like the Schmidt cycle is a must. Everybody refers to it as a core performance (it reminds me how everybody refers to Solti's Ring  ;D). Raw and archaic Nielsen Power!!!   ;)   Was the Schmidt cycle OOP for a while and just recently reissued?  I have my eyes on the Blomstedt cycle as well (with the Danish NO), which seems to be the most common recommendation.  Ah, clearly plenty to choose from. I wish Martinon recorded additional symphonies...    Regardless, would you recommend Blomstedt?
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:11:12 PM
Yeah, I have been reading up on this as well and it seems like the Schmidt cycle is a must. Everybody refers to it as a core performance (it reminds me how everybody refers to Solti's Ring  ;D). Raw and archaic Nielsen Power!!!   ;)   Was the Schmidt cycle OOP for a while and just recently reissued?  I have my eyes on the Blomstedt cycle as well (with the Danish NO), which seems to be the most common recommendation.  Ah, clearly plenty to choose from. I wish Martinon recorded additional symphonies...    Regardless, would you recommend Blomstedt?

I'm still awaiting to hear more about the Ole Schmidt's cycle audio quality. Again, the overly reverberant sound has me a bit worried as this could be a hinderance for me. I like hearing clarity in a performance. Anyway, I do not own Blomstedt's Danish cycle on EMI surprisingly. I don't know why exactly I don't own it, but I suppose I liked his later San Francisco cycle so much that I always thought how could he ever possibly top it even with an earlier cycle behind him? This is the only reason why I avoided his earlier cycle I can think of and I suppose I'm not too sure about the audio quality in that Danish cycle. But if you don't own the SFSO cycle, Peter, than it receives my warmest recommendation. Not to be missed.

Mirror Image

BTW, this is a smoking performance of The Inextinguishable:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NYrCiE7U0_0

People have said plenty of negative things about Mr. Fuzzy Top (Rattle), but I think in some music, he simply is one of the best out there. Always a sensitive conductor and knows how to bring out certain musical phrases that other conductors may just glide through. This Nielsen performance is definitely a fine one.

Moonfish

#369
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:16:53 PM
I'm still awaiting to hear more about the Ole Schmidt's cycle audio quality. Again, the overly reverberant sound has me a bit worried as this could be a hinderance for me. I like hearing clarity in a performance. Anyway, I do not own Blomstedt's Danish cycle on EMI surprisingly. I don't know why exactly I don't own it, but I suppose I liked his later San Francisco cycle so much that I always thought how could he ever possibly top it even with an earlier cycle behind him? This is the only reason why I avoided his earlier cycle I can think of and I suppose I'm not too sure about the audio quality in that Danish cycle. But if you don't own the SFSO cycle, Peter, than it receives my warmest recommendation. Not to be missed.

Interesting! I think I read somewhere that his SFSO cycle was inferior to the Danish one.  It is kind of funny how reviews vary so much. I suspect that the SFSO certainly must have better sound.  Regardless, the ultimate test is taking it in with our own minds and not worrying too much about the gadfly reviews. 
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Sergeant Rock

#370
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
But what about the sound quality, Jens?

It's always dangerous discussing sound quality with you, John (remember our Slatkin/VW "debate"  ;D ) but to my ears Schmidt sounds great...well, maybe just very good. The all-important (to me) brass detail is there (if not in quite the startling clarity of Kuchar). But sound be damned: it's Schmidt's way with the music that's important. Schmidt was my first Nielsen cycle (LP boxes in the 70s) and after the acquisition of nine more cycles, it's still number one. One caveat: I have not heard Oramo yet. Schmidt may have finally been superceded.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:34:52 AM
I didn't enjoy Gilbert's cycle that much.

Neither did I. The Third was especially disappointing.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Moonfish

"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

jlaurson

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
But what about the sound quality, Jens? FYI, I didn't like Gilbert's Nielsen cycle, although I haven't heard the concerti recording (yet). :) For modern cycles, Oramo is my man in these symphonies right now.

I can only tell you that I don't remember being let down by the SQ... and that it obviously didn't prevent this effect on me... and that it was also of a kind that made nothing negative stick out about it. But I would lie, if I could tell you that I actually recall the actual sound. (And I haven't got it handy to check just now.) But it was absolutely, absolutely ear-opening for me, despite *wanting* to love Nielsen for many years.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
This one?



I only like half of Blomstedt's SF cycle (1, 2, 6). Really hate his Third. But don't pay attention to me: mine's a minority opinion.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:22:27 PM
Interesting! I think I read somewhere that his SFSO cycle was inferior to the Danish one.  It is kind of funny how reviews vary so much. I suspect that the SFSO certainly must have better sound.  Regardless, the ultimate test is taking it in with our own minds and not worrying too much about the gadfly reviews.

I seem to recall many people preferring the SFSO cycle to the Danish one, but, yes, a great performance is something that varies from listener to listener, but every now and again, there seems to be an almost unanimous consensus on performances, but, there's always someone that doesn't like something. It's just the nature of this music.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:23:45 PM
It's always dangerous discussing sound quality with you, John (remember our Slatkin/VW "debate"  ;D ) but to my ears Schmidt sounds great...well, maybe just very good. The all-important (to me) brass detail is there (if not in quite the startling clarity of Kuchar). But sound be damned: it's Schmidt's way with the music that's important. Schmidt was my first Nielsen cycle (LP boxes in the 70s) and after the acquisition of nine more cycles, it's still number one. One caveat: I have not heard Oramo yet. Schmidt may have finally been superceded.

Neither did I. The Third was especially disappointing.

Sarge

Stop everything. Quit rolling the tape. The Sarge and I agree on something?!?!? Holy shit! There's an imbalance in the universe. ;) ;D But seriously, it seems you, Jeffrey Smith, and myself are in full agreement about Gilbert's Nielsen so far. I wonder if we can form a club or something? :) Anyway, thanks for your feedback regarding the Schmidt cycle (Jens too).  Much appreciated. Sounds like a cycle I'll need. IMHO, Oramo is outstanding and very much closer to what I feel is the spirit of this music. I would try the recording with Symphonies 1 & 3 first.

Mirror Image

Quote from: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 02:24:49 PM
I can only tell you that I don't remember being let down by the SQ... and that it obviously didn't prevent this effect on me... and that it was also of a kind that made nothing negative stick out about it. But I would lie, if I could tell you that I actually recall the actual sound. (And I haven't got it handy to check just now.) But it was absolutely, absolutely ear-opening for me, despite *wanting* to love Nielsen for many years.

Thanks a lot, Jens. Your feedback is very helpful.


Mirror Image

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
I only like half of Blomstedt's SF cycle (1, 2, 6). Really hate his Third. But don't pay attention to me: mine's a minority opinion.

Sarge

Yes, his 6th is especially noteworthy I feel. Don't recall how I feel about his Espansiva, but I'll have to plan a revisit soon. Temperaments is especially fine as well in this SFSO cycle.

Camphy

#379
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Thanks for enticing me to listen to Nielsen's Fourth yet again! ;) I'm growing very fond of it.
Although I can't offer you much in the way of comparison, I will say that to me the Schmidt set sounds very good and has great clarity. No difficulties in perceiving the various instrumental sections. I certainly wouldn't call it "overly reverberant". Hope you'll enjoy it!