The Nielsen Nexus

[Mirror Image]

The first movement especially has all the things I look for. It has great detail (trumpets do not disappoint) and a sense of anticipation and excitement as the waltz climax approaches...and then, the waltz is played in an individual way that gave me a sense that the conductor knew what he wanted, and got what he wanted rather than just getting through it. Gave me goose bumps    The only negative reaction I had to the performance was the tenor in the slow movement. But everyone responds to voices differently so I don't think that should necessarily bother others.

Sarge

Really glad you enjoyed Oramo's Espansiva. Another one of my recommendations that rewards the listener.

[The new erato]

I like his 3 and 4. I haven't explored the rest in depth.

I'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge

Breathes in relief. The bazooka rests.

[TheGSMoeller]

Bazooka loaded? Tables ready to be rebuild? Because I'm willing to be the odd man out and claim preference of the Gilbert/NYP over Oramo/Stockholm. This is based on comparing nos. 4 and 5 since that's the only one available on spotify from Oramo.
For pure crisp sound and orchestral clarity the Oramo is tops, same can be said for their magnificent Elgar 2nd, but interpretation is lacking the level of stimulation I'm searching for within Nielsen's symphonies. I know I knocked on Gilbert's participation in an earlier post and gave more credit to the NYP, and it's still mostly the case. But when compared to Oramo, Gilbert is more detailed to my ears. He seems to stretch out some of the more dramatic moments, creating a larger sound wall, and truly pinpointing the importance of dynamics which puts the dark and heavy toned NY musicians on display.
This is not a negative review on Oramo, from what I've heard his Nielsen cycle is great, and I am an Oramo fan (although not big on his Bruckner), but when picking between the two newest cycles I'm leaning towards Gilbert.
Although BIS does outdo DaCapo in the recorded quality. Gilbert is taken from live performances which I would take over studio any day, but a few too obvious adjustments, 4th's second mvt gets bumped up so much that audience and stage noise becomes more apparent.

[Sergeant Rock]

Bazooka loaded?

I can't argue with you. I've only compared Gilbert's and Oramo's Espansivas...and in that Symphony Oramo is clearly producing more of what I want in this work, both sonically and interpretively.

Sarge

[TheGSMoeller]

I can't argue with you. I've only compared Gilbert's and Oramo's Espansivas...and in that Symphony Oramo is clearly producing more of what I want in this work, both sonically and interpretively.

Sarge

Good morning, Sarge,
I would like to hear Oramo's 3rd, I really enjoyed Gilbert/NYP's take, the first and final movements were very powerful.
If the BIS sonics are similar throughout the entire cycle then I'm guessing Oramo's 3rd is beautifully detailed.

[Mirror Image]

Bazooka loaded? Tables ready to be rebuild? Because I'm willing to be the odd man out and claim preference of the Gilbert/NYP over Oramo/Stockholm. This is based on comparing nos. 4 and 5 since that's the only one available on spotify from Oramo.

For pure crisp sound and orchestral clarity the Oramo is tops, same can be said for their magnificent Elgar 2nd, but interpretation is lacking the level of stimulation I'm searching for within Nielsen's symphonies. I know I knocked on Gilbert's participation in an earlier post and gave more credit to the NYP, and it's still mostly the case. But when compared to Oramo, Gilbert is more detailed to my ears. He seems to stretch out some of the more dramatic moments, creating a larger sound wall, and truly pinpointing the importance of dynamics which puts the dark and heavy toned NY musicians on display.
This is not a negative review on Oramo, from what I've heard his Nielsen cycle is great, and I am an Oramo fan (although not big on his Bruckner), but when picking between the two newest cycles I'm leaning towards Gilbert.

Although BIS does outdo Da Capo in the recorded quality. Gilbert is taken from live performances which I would take over studio any day, but a few too obvious adjustments, 4th's second mvt gets bumped up so much that audience and stage noise becomes more apparent.

We all hear things differently. Oramo just sounds right in Nielsen to my ears. Gilbert has the advantage of the NY Philharmonic, but Gilbert isn't Bernstein and he has no authority on the podium whatsoever. I like this analogy: Gilbert is a stream, Oramo is a raging river.

[TheGSMoeller]

GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

They are all so diverse and unique, it's been fascinating to rediscover these works.

[Mirror Image]

GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

They are all so diverse and unique, it's been fascinating to rediscover these works.

That's an incredibly difficult question, Greg. I love them all, but if I were forced into a corner, I'd pick The Inextinguishable. The reason why is a little more complicated, but I think this symphony is life-affirming. It's never depressive and it never feels like Nielsen is preaching to anyone. I think this symphony is his 'signature'. It has all of the elements that we've come to love about his music right from the beginning. This duality which I've mentioned many times is brought to the foreground. There's a constant struggle in this symphony, which where the duality comes into effect. These interwoven sequences of emotional temperatures remind me in some ways of Mahler, but projected into a completely different light altogether. The ending of the first movement also seems to have a longing quality in the music that peaks its head in his music from time to time, but it seems a bit subdued, but this feels like a sigh of relief or some kind of release. This symphony, for me, continues to be one of his most passionate musical utterances. Anyway, I have many favorite performances, but if I had to pick one it would be Blomstedt/San Francisco SO. I think Blomstedt gets beneath the surface of this music and isn't just concerned with creating a beautiful surface.

[Mirror Image]

I guess no one is going to answer Greg's question besides me?

Anyway, love watching Bernstein conduct the Espansiva:

https://www.youtube.com/v/d5sbcF7p0Pk

It's apparent right from the start that Bernstein was loving every minute of the symphony. Surely, his performance of the 3rd is one of the best on record. The enthusiasm, honest affection, and command Bernstein had of Nielsen's idiom continues to be a source of inspiration for me. You can feel the love of the music in every bar of this performance.

[TheGSMoeller]

I guess no one is going to answer Greg's question besides me?

Anyway, love watching Bernstein conduct the Espansiva:

https://www.youtube.com/v/d5sbcF7p0Pk

It's apparent right from the start that Bernstein was loving every minute of the symphony. Surely, his performance of the 3rd is one of the best on record. The enthusiasm, honest affection, and command Bernstein had of Nielsen's idiom continues to be a source of inspiration for me. You can feel the love of the music in every bar of this performance.

I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult 
Thanks for the video posting, John.

[Mirror Image]

I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult 
Thanks for the video posting, John.

Yeah, even I'm losing sleep over choosing The Inextinguishable whenever all of the other ones are equally satisfying for me but obviously in different ways.

[Mirror Image]

Pan and Syrinx, Op. 49, FS 49



This eight-minute symphonic poem is an imaginative and very pretty piece based on a subject from Classical Antiquity, inspired by Ovid's Metamorphoses. It is the legend of the invention of the flute by the god Pan, who has been pursuing a nymph, Syrinx. Fleeing him, the nymph reaches a lake that cuts off her escape. The gods take pity on her, transforming her into a reed. From the reed, Pan built his original pan-pipe.

Obviously any piece concerning Syrinx is going to have major parts for woodwind solos. This eight-minute symphonic poem was written at the height of Nielsen's powers as a composer, right after he finished the Fourth Symphony. It is a vigorous, pretty, and poetic work.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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This is such a great work, although it seems like it's over before it begins being only 8-9 minutes in duration. It shows the composer in a different light. Some of the harmonies are almost Debussyian. What does everyone think of this work? My favorite performance would probably be Thomas Dausgaard/Danish NSO on Dacapo, although there have been several great performances like Niklas Willén's on Naxos (w/ the South Jutland SO).

[Mirror Image]

It's time for some more spotlighting...

Symphony No. 3, "Sinfonia Espansiva," Op. 27, FS 60



Carl Nielsen wished to demonstrate in his third symphony his conviction that music is driven by internal forces that seek to transcend their confines. The work begins with an energetic waltz of enormous scale. The melodic-rhythmic progression of this melody drives itself forward irresistibly, indeed expansively (the movement is marked Allegro espansiva), introducing several variations to which Nielsen returns throughout the symphony. As the opening theme is transformed and re-invented; one is reminded of Nielsen's fondness for Brahms' use of symphonic form, particularly his "developing variations" principle. The original theme serves as a "seed" that leads to new variations, which in turn give rise to new motifs. The movement ends merrily, almost flippantly, on an unexpected chord.

Nielsen wished to incorporate into the second movement, Andante pastorale, the sights and sounds of his rural childhood on the island of Funen (Fyn) in Denmark. The movement begins idyllically, with horn and strings sighing long, low tones, bringing to mind the shapeless sound of wind in the trees. A increasingly mournful mood creeps slowly into Arkady, while the opening melody is hinted at again in a heavier, more threatening manner. This is resolved by the soothing, wordless entrance of two human voices, baritone and soprano soloists who vocalize on the simple "Ah" vowel. Their contribution expands the tonal color of the orchestral palette. The movement ends with the orchestra and vocalists echoing each other as though in contented communication. Nielsen once expressed a desire to "imagine a music that would be similar to impressionistic painting, where the contours wash out in an atmospheric haze." This movement does just that, creating a rich and ethereal effect.

The third movement, marked Allegretto un poco, opens with a hushed brass fanfare, and proceeds into a flurry of restless energy in the oboe. This restlessness spreads throughout the orchestra, growing in urgency and volume as the movement progresses. As urgency settles slowly into calmness, punctuated only by occasional hushed alarms from individual instruments (violin, clarinet, flute), the oboe speaks again, this time reassuringly, bringing the movement to a peaceful close. The finale, Allegro, begins with a stately march theme. This expansive melody, in which the entire orchestra is involved, sums up the development of the entire work with a grandiose intensification reminiscent of Mahler. The loose ends, both emotional and musical, left by the first two movements are resolved in an exuberant closing.

The symphony proved to be Nielsen's international breakthrough. After its enthusiastic reception in Denmark, Nielsen conducted a performance at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, where the symphony was given high praise, launching a series of successful performances throughout Europe. It remains one of Nielsen's most often-performed works.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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A masterpiece. Plain and simple. Much discussion has already taken place in this thread about the Espansiva, but I figured it needed another boost. My favorite performances right now are Bernstein/Royal Danish Orch., Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO, and Chung/Gothenberg SO.

[Sergeant Rock]

GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult 

Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge

[Mirror Image]

Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge

Yep, I knew you would choose the Espansiva, Sarge. I now feel guilty for picking The Inextinguishable...well...maybe guilty is the wrong word. Like I said, I love all of Nielsen's symphonies. I could have picked Symphony No. 5 just as easily as The Four Temperaments.

[TheGSMoeller]

Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge. I've have the Chung in transit, very excited to hear it. I've grown to love the 3rd, it's fantastic.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks, Sarge. I've have the Chung in transit, very excited to hear it. I've grown to love the 3rd, it's fantastic.

Yep, the Chung really is top-drawer and very much worth your time, Greg, but so is Bernstein's and Oramo's. Do you own Bernstein's?

[Mirror Image]

I've got to say this: over the past month or so while my love of Sibelius has increased more and more, my love of Nielsen has skyrocketed. I've always liked Nielsen's music but I honestly didn't understand him or his music well enough to count him as an absolute favorite. My, oh my, how the tables have turned. Phenomenal, visionary composer.

[71 dB]

I've got to say this: over the past month or so my love of Nielsen has skyrocketed.

Not surprising considering your activity in this thread. 

I've always liked Nielsen's music but I honestly didn't understand him or his music well enough to count him as an absolute favorite.  My, oh my, how the tables have turned.

What changed? What made you seek for better understanding of Nielsen's music?

In general I am interested why is it so difficult to understand artists? For me Liszt has been this kind of revelation: For long I simply ignored his music until I heard the B minor Sonata. 

Phenomenal, visionary composer.

Yes, Carl Nielsen is an underrated composer (except in Denmark I guess?)

I have to say I don't listen to Nielsen very often, but when I do his music does impress me a lot. Now I am listening to Nielsen's choral works on Chandos, a CD I haven't listened to 15 years I believe!

[Mirror Image]

What changed? What made you seek for better understanding of Nielsen's music?

I guess I just decided it was high time I sit down and try to understand his music better. Again, I've always liked his music, but I didn't love it. After I rekindled my love for Sibelius, I was constantly listening to Nielsen and, I don't know, I just got into his music and finally understood it better. Reading about his life also gave me a whole new appreciation for him, which is something I never had done before. When I bought the Oramo cycle on BIS, this also helped cement this love of his music. I was then able to go back to older performances and get even more enjoyment out of them.

In general, I am interested why is it so difficult to understand artists?

I'm not sure if I can answer this question accurately, but I will say all great artists challenge you and bend your ears in new directions. Sometimes the attraction is immediate and sometimes it's not. I suppose it all depends on how receptive you are of the music.