The Nielsen Nexus

[Jo498]

I don't think it's nonsense. It may not be very reasonable but hardly any music lover can avoid being somewhat disappointed if music he regards highly seems to be neglected. (Just watch Gurn ranting about Beethoven and later 19th century musicians eclipsing Haydn...)

And while it is of course not the "fault" of  Sibelius, I can clearly understand that someone might be slightly pissed off that e.g. Sibelius' violin concerto is hugely popular whereas Nielsen's is a dark horse. In that sense Nielsen's concerto obviously does suffer from the popularity of Sibelius's (as well as Tchaikovsky's, Prokofieff's  concerti etc.)
If anyone is to blame, though, of course not the composers, but performers who play or audiences who want to hear always the same stuff.

[ritter]

In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....

Have you explored any of Nielsen's other symphonies, concertante works, chamber music, or operas, ritter? You being an opera buff, you should check out his Saul & David and Maskarade. I haven't heard either work (I own a performance of Maskarade, though). All of his symphonic output is rewarding. Each symphony is like a world unto its' own.

Thank's for that, Mirror Image!

Perhap's you missed this (which more or less sums up my current view of Nielsen):

In the height of scorching summer in Madrid, first listen to Springtime in Funen  . The title of the piece had always seemed very appealing, but Nielsen is only a recent discovery for me (thanks mainly to his keen proselitizers here on GMG  ) . I enjoyed the symphonies (the Inextiguishable and the Expansiva), I liked the Clarinet concerto very much, and found Maskerade rather cute. In this case, though, I must admit that even if I recognize a master composer's touch, I don't really like these pieces  (I've listened to Hymnus amoris as well). Purely a matter of personal taste, I suppose.... 

[asin]B000000AKU[/asin]

So, in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

Best regards,

[Mirror Image]

If anyone is to blame, though, of course not the composers, but performers who play or audiences who want to hear always the same stuff.

I can't blame anyone for wanting to hear music they enjoy or attending a concert with a program that interests them. If someone loves Beethoven and loves the fact that his/her local orchestra plays Beethoven at every concert, then I'm happy to hear it. If I saw Nielsen on a concert program in Atlanta, then I would attend, but, alas, I don't think this happens very often, but I'm certainly not worried about it, though. I have plenty of recordings of his music and if I'm ever in Denmark, then I'll make sure to visit at a time when Nielsen is on the Danish NSO's program. Life's too short to worry about such trivial things.

It used to bother me that one composer gets more mention than another one who I believe deserves it more, but it's just not worth worrying about for me anymore. At least I found Nielsen's music and this is all that matters to me. Everything else is out of my control.

[Mirror Image]

In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....
Thank's for that, Mirror Image!

Perhap's you missed this (which more or less sums up my current view of Nielsen):So, in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

Best regards,

Ah, but have you given yourself sufficient time to really let his idiom sink in? I used to not connect with Holmboe (or Shostakovich for that matter), but today is a different story. I think Nielsen is a tough nut to crack for some. His style is just that singular, but you liked The Inextinguishable and enjoyed the Clarinet Concerto, so there's still hope for you. Putting your personal opinions aside of his choral/operatic music, have you seriously listened to any of the symphonies outside of The Inextinguishable or any other orchestral/concertante work besides the Clarinet Concerto? For me, Nielsen, like Sibelius, is at his best writing for the orchestra, although I do have a fondness for some of his chamber music like the masterful Wind Quintet. Do give the symphonies and other orchestral works a listen. You may find yourself greatly surprised.

FWIW, I really enjoy Nielsen's choral works, but I can understand how they wouldn't be to someone's taste as they don't really have that kind of sound he experimented with in his symphonies or concerti, which I suppose is why I like them, because they show his versatility. Kind of like Sibelius, for example, there are many people that just listen to the symphonies, the VC, or the tone poems, but there's much more to the composer than these works. He wrote incredible theatre music as well as vocal music. Anyway, just give him a chance to grow on you.

[Karl Henning]

In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....

[...] in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

For your future consideration 

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ow0sYQH-8HQ

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

For your future consideration 

Marvelous piece, that Wind 5tet. I'm listening to it now, an old LP with the Melos Ensemble.

On the question of Nielsen v. Sibelius, I think they are about equally great as composers, but very different in style and personality. I think of Nielsen as a humanist and Sibelius as a nature mystic (though of course these are not exclusive categories).

[Karl Henning]

Marvelous piece, that Wind 5tet. I'm listening to it now, an old LP with the Melos Ensemble.

I think I may have that one in the Icon reissue box.

[Mirror Image]

On the question of Nielsen v. Sibelius, I think they are about equally great as composers, but very different in style and personality. I think of Nielsen as a humanist and Sibelius as a nature mystic (though of course these are not exclusive categories).

I won't argue with this and I agree: both composers are completely different from each other.

Here's a nice little video with Thomas Dausgaard talking about Nielsen:

https://www.youtube.com/v/Fp94eSerLvw

[Mirror Image]

Does anyone know the reasoning behind Bernstein not recording the first and sixth symphonies?

[Mirror Image]

A bit about my experience with Nielsen's music this year:

It took me about six years to come to grips with Nielsen's idiom. For some, the attraction to the music is immediate, but, for me, I had to work at it. I was allured by his sound-world but I didn't love it. This year, Nielsen's 150th Anniversary of his birth nonetheless, I finally cracked this music wide-open. Nielsen draws from many sources: Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Danish folk music, but this is all projected through his own unique lens and the result is something a bit off-the-wall, passionate, emotionally absorbing, half sweet, half sour, but, ultimately, his music was a reflection of who he was like all the great composers. His compositional voice is one of defiance and challenging traditional notions of symphonic music. I'm glad I never stopped listening. Great things do come to those who are patient enough to wait for it.

[The new erato]

A bit about my experience with Nielsen's music this year:

It took me about six years to come to grips with Nielsen's idiom. For some, the attraction to the music is immediate, but, for me, I had to work at it. I was allured by his sound-world but I didn't love it. This year, Nielsen's 150th Anniversary of his birth nonetheless, I finally cracked this music wide-open. Nielsen draws from many sources: Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Danish folk music, but this is all projected through his own unique lens and the result is something a bit off-the-wall, passionate, emotionally absorbing, half sweet, half sour, but, ultimately, his music was a reflection of who he was like all the great composers. His compositional voice is one of defiance and challenging traditional notions of symphonic music. I'm glad I never stopped listening. Great things do come to those who are patient enough to wait for it.

We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expansion of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.

[Karl Henning]

We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expanison of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.

Most interesting!

[Mirror Image]

We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expansion of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.

I wish I had a girlfriend like that! But, yes, we all respond to music differently. I will say the first symphony of Nielsen's to really get under my skin was The Four Temperaments, which I mentioned a few pages back.

[Karl Henning]

I don't think that defiance works as a general description of Nielsen's compositional voice . . . does not at all suit (for example) the Three Motets, Op.55, nor our collective favorite Andante pastorale from the Sinfonia espansiva, nor the Wind Quintet, Op.43, nor the courtly charm of the Poco allegretto from Det uudslukkelige, nor the celebration of the sunrise which is the Helios Overture, nor the bumptious finale of the Flute Concerto, nor the rugged good spirits of the E^b String Quartet, Op.14 (whose Finale is marked Allegro coraggioso), nor the sumptuous textures of Søvnen . . . you get the idea.

Independence, Self-Reliance (how very Emerson  ), yes . . . and one can point to individual pieces or movements which support the thesis of Defiance, of course.  To be sure, no one adjective will serve to describe the work of any great artist.  But you will pardon me for considering defiant as really quite deficient here.

[Mirror Image]

I don't think that defiance works as a general description of Nielsen's compositional voice . . . does not at all suit (for example) the Three Motets, Op.55, nor our collective favorite Andante pastorale from the Sinfonia espansiva, nor the Wind Quintet, Op.43, nor the courtly charm of the Poco allegretto from Det uudslukkelige, nor the celebration of the sunrise which is the Helios Overture, nor the bumptious finale of the Flute Concerto, nor the rugged good spirits of the E^b String Quartet, Op.14 (whose Finale is marked Allegro coraggioso), nor the sumptuous textures of Søvnen . . . you get the idea.

Independence, Self-Reliance (how very Emerson  ), yes . . . and one can point to individual pieces or movements which support the thesis of Defiance, of course.  To be sure, no one adjective will serve to describe the work of any great artist.  But you will pardon me for considering defiant as really quite deficient here.

I only used the word defiance in the sense that Nielsen went his own way as a composer and was a man who seemed to not compromise on what he wanted to do. Personally, I don't see how any one could refute this point.

[Mirror Image]

But....I do agree that Nielsen can't be summed up so easily, but I sure as hell tried, didn't I?

[Karl Henning]

I only used the word defiance in the sense that Nielsen went his own way as a composer and was a man who seemed to not compromise on what wanted to do. Personally, I don't see how any one could refute this point.

I refute that Defiance is the right word for "going one's own way as a composer"    (Independence, as I suggested, is better).  He certainly did not need to defy the musical establishment in Denmark:  he was one of them.  (We might say that was part of Langgaard's quarrel.)

[Karl Henning]

Per this:

One of my very favorite composers:

Nielsen
String Quartet № 3 in E^b, Op.14 FS 23 (1897-98)
Danish String Quartet

This does not sound like a typical "late 19^th-c. string quartet."  (Just saying.)

I did a double-take when I saw the date of composition.  The outer movements have a cheeriness which seems more reminiscent of Haydn.  The Andante sostenuto, though, while it is not chromatic in the manner of the Zeitgeist, is certainly warmly Romantic in manner.

[Mirror Image]

I refute that Defiance is the right word for "going one's own way as a composer"    (Independence, as I suggested, is better).  He certainly did not need to defy the musical establishment in Denmark:  he was one of them.  (We might say that was part of Langgaard's quarrel.)

But isn't defiance a part of not making any musical compromises?

[Mirror Image]

Also, after watching a documentary on Nielsen, I get the sense that Nielsen, in his own way, did not like the state of the current Danish musical establishment or at least the one that Niels Gade had built before him. So this idea of tearing down foundations and forging new paths is a part of what made think of the word defiant.