The Nielsen Nexus

Started by BachQ, April 12, 2007, 10:10:00 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mirror Image

#620
Review I wrote on Oramo's recording of Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3:



Title: Thrilling Nielsen From Oramo!

After listening to Oramo's Nielsen cycle many times, I've concluded that this is the best cycle of recent times. Far surpassing Gilbert, Järvi, and Storgårds. One of the more remarkable qualities of these performances is the amount of enthusiasm, emotional drive, incisiveness, and level of commitment Oramo brings to the performances. He is the yin to Rozhdestvensky's yang in terms of briskness and general attitude about tempi, but don't let this be a make/break decision. Make no mistake this is prime Nielsen in a time we need more performances as last year marked the 150th anniversary of Nielsen's birth (born in 1865).

Now more about this particular recording in Oramo's series: "Symphony No. 1" is brilliant performed and is one of the best on record (along with Chung's). While there may be some 'spot the influences' here and there, this is still unmistakably Nielsen from start to finish. I think it's one heck of a symphony and each time I hear it I remain engaged from start to finish. Of course, "Symphony No. 3 ("Sinfonia Espansiva")" is where we hear the composer working in his mature style. One could view "Symphony No. 3" as his 'pastoral symphony' or whatever and I certainly wouldn't refute that viewpoint. It does show a more lyrical side of his music, especially that serene "Andante pastorale" with the two vocalists providing an ethereal soundscape for the listener to dream in. This symphony isn't without its more raucous moments: the first, third, and final movements containing the more aggressive music. Of all of Nielsen's six symphonies, the "Espansiva" took me the longest to appreciate. Many would cite his "Symphony No. 6 ("Sinfonia Semplice")" as the toughest nut to crack, but I didn't really have any problems with it as I'm quite comfortable with composers dabbling in more Modernist styles. Anyway, I think the "Espansiva" is my favorite symphony right now (this could change at any moment as I love them all so much). Perhaps you'll appreciate the symphony more than I did on first-hearing? The performances from the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic and the audio engineering couldn't be at a higher level than what's on display here.

I highly recommend Oramo's cycle, especially if you're looking to find a conductor who seems to understand the music on a deeper level, which the two afore mentioned current cycles fail to do.

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:08:10 AM
After listening to Oramo's Nielsen cycle many times, I've concluded that this is the best cycle of recent times.

Too bad these are BIS discs meaning they will never become cheap, new or used.  :(

Anyway, I am happy with my Leaper cycle and there is no need to look elsewhere...
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Mirror Image

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 06:46:45 AM
Too bad these are BIS discs meaning they will never become cheap, new or used.  :(

Anyway, I am happy with my Leaper cycle and there is no need to look elsewhere...

Leaper is mediocre at best IMHO as I've heard his Symphonies 3 & 4 performances and that was enough. Plus, I didn't really suggest that you should buy another cycle anyway. :-\ As far as the expense of BIS recordings is concerned, oh well...I've been lucky to have found a lot of their recordings for good prices through the years.

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AM
Leaper is mediocre at best IMHO as I've heard his Symphonies 3 & 4 performances and that was enough.
Fortunately his mediocrity does not stop me from enjoying the music, which is excellent in Nielsen's case.  :)

Nobody ever says anything positive about Leaper, but somehow I have never had problem with him and I have quite a many Leaper discs since Naxos has used him a lot. Perhaps Klaus Heymann and I are his only fans?  ;D

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AMPlus, I didn't really suggest that you should buy another cycle anyway. :-\
That's true. I read is between the lines myself.  0:)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AMAs far as the expense of BIS recordings is concerned, oh well...I've been lucky to have found a lot of their recordings for good prices through the years.
That's nice. One way to deal with the prices is to pay what is asked, but buy less. I have the Suzuki Bach cantata cycle to finish (volumes 51, 52, 53 and 54) and then there's the secular cantatas (I have the first two volumes of those).

Anyway, thanks for informing us that the Oramo cycle kicks ass. Maybe I buy the one containing #4, since it's my favorite, to experience the multichannel version (awesome with headphones Lt/Rt-downmixed and crossfed). They ask £10.30+shipping for it at the moment (typical BIS price). Spotify?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Mirror Image

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMFortunately his mediocrity does not stop me from enjoying the music, which is excellent in Nielsen's case.  :)

Nobody ever says anything positive about Leaper, but somehow I have never had problem with him and I have quite a many Leaper discs since Naxos has used him a lot. Perhaps Klaus Heymann and I are his only fans?  ;D

I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMThat's true. I read is between the lines myself.  0:)

How about reading what is actually written and not what you perceive to be written? :)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMThat's nice. One way to deal with the prices is to pay what is asked, but buy less. I have the Suzuki Bach cantata cycle to finish (volumes 51, 52, 53 and 54) and then there's the secular cantatas (I have the first two volumes of those).

I seldom pay the full price, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll buy what I feel I want and need, but I'll always be sure I get a good deal on it in the process.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMAnyway, thanks for informing us that the Oramo cycle kicks ass. Maybe I buy the one containing #4, since it's my favorite, to experience the multichannel version (awesome with headphones Lt/Rt-downmixed and crossfed). They ask £10.30+shipping for it at the moment (typical BIS price). Spotify?

Well, if I were to suggest a place to start with Oramo's Nielsen, it would be the recording I reviewed above (Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3). I'm not sure if Oramo's cycle is on Spotify or not since I seldom use the service myself.

DaveF

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2016, 03:25:42 PM
Flute Concerto, FS 119

This is one of my favorite pieces of music...ever. I love it so much. There are a plethora of emotional temperatures displayed throughout the work. Does anyone have a favorite performance? Mine is Patrick Gallois/Chung on BIS. It doesn't get much better than this IMHO.

I know his detractors don't always think highly of it, but I find that



has an authority and technical brilliance often missing from other performances (such as my other two - Toke Lund Christiansen on Chandos and old Jespersen himself).  Must listen to Gallois.

(And it's a candidate for Worst CD Cover.)

I've always heard the Flute Concerto as, if not quite a tragic work, at least a fairly damning judgement on Jespersen himself (or perhaps only resignedly humorous) - i.e. stressing the inability of the ultra-refined aesthete to perceive the obvious - in that the various themes of the second movement (the opening melody and its 6/8 variation) are all variants of the slow episode at the heart of the first movement (your "simple cantabile melody in E"), which it takes an ignorant bumpkin with a trombone to point out.



It's interesting that the first performance, hastily assembled, was missing the final trombone intrusion and had a much simpler and less conclusive coda - there are bits about it on the Nielsen society website.  Don't suppose that's ever been recorded, although it would be good to have it as an alternative CD track, like you sometimes get the shorter ending to the Bartók Concerto for Orchestra.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Mirror Image

Yeah, DaveF, I read about that simplified version of the Flute Concerto. It would be nice to hear even if it isn't the fully realized version we all know nowadays. I haven't heard Galway's performance. Who's the conductor/orchestra? This also makes a difference. If it's someone who has no affinity for Nielsen, then I'll pass as I like to hear a conductor who is up to the task as much as the soloist, which is why I singled out the Gallois/Chung performance on BIS.

DaveF

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 09:49:08 AM
I haven't heard Galway's performance. Who's the conductor/orchestra?

Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

premont

Quote from: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.

Doesn't surprise me, as I suppose this orchestra would manage to play this work even without a conductor.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Mirror Image

Quote from: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.

Hah! Cool. Like premont said, it's not like the Danish RSO don't know the work well. :)

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).

My idea of a conductor is to be a neutral and precise interpreter of the composer's musical ideas. Nielsen's music itself is exciting and different. I don't need conductors to add anything to it. I have not heard any of the performances you list.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMHow about reading what is actually written and not what you perceive to be written? :)

That's actually quite funny proposition, as if we could always "correct" our "false" interpretation with what the writer originally had in mind. What is actually written is not always unambiguous or free of hidden meanings. What we perceive is what we perceive.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMI seldom pay the full price, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll buy what I feel I want and need, but I'll always be sure I get a good deal on it in the process.

In my experience BIS is one of the hardest labels to get good deals. There's several places to buy online, but something (currency rates/customs duty/shipping rates etc.) often renders the deal less attractive. Many Amazon.co.uk sellers do not ship outside UK and those who do often have significantly higher prices. Just today experienced this while buying the CPE Bach set. £42.06 is the "best" deal, but no delivery outside UK. The cheapest international offer is £51.43. That's no less than 22 % more! Amazon.de had a better deal (52.78 € delivered) and I ordered it from there. People living in "big" countries like US or UK don't necessorily understand that the good deals aren't always available for people living in other countries. Our "nordic" online music shop is cdon.com and you don't want to know how much it sucks. How about 17.95 € + shipping for your BIS discs? For those they happen to have available that is. Scared already?  >:D

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMWell, if I were to suggest a place to start with Oramo's Nielsen, it would be the recording I reviewed above (Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3). I'm not sure if Oramo's cycle is on Spotify or not since I seldom use the service myself.

Two of the three discs are there. The one with #2 and #6 oddly isn't.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

PerfectWagnerite

#631
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).
I never thought Leaper was anything special either, but he is certainly capable of turning in an extraordinary performance as in this performance here of Bax's evocative symphony poem Tintagel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lPDkk-8Mk

Here he takes what most of us would perceive as a second-rate orchestra playing music that they do not know well and turn in a great performance !

Back to recordings of the quirkey Flute Concerto, my favorite is Julius Baker/Bernstein on SONY. There is restraint and artistry all done with professionalism and absolutely no showboating by Baker.

Another good one is this one which combines the Clarinet and Violin Concertos on budget price and is a steal at aftermarket price:



BTW what do you guys think of this set?


Mirror Image

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
My idea of a conductor is to be a neutral and precise interpreter of the composer's musical ideas. Nielsen's music itself is exciting and different. I don't need conductors to add anything to it. I have not heard any of the performances you list.

If you haven't heard any of the afore mentioned conductors in Nielsen, I'd say you've got a lot of catching up to do. :)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMThat's actually quite funny proposition, as if we could always "correct" our "false" interpretation with what the writer originally had in mind. What is actually written is not always unambiguous or free of hidden meanings. What we perceive is what we perceive.

Then what you perceived isn't what I actually meant.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMIn my experience BIS is one of the hardest labels to get good deals. There's several places to buy online, but something (currency rates/customs duty/shipping rates etc.) often renders the deal less attractive. Many Amazon.co.uk sellers do not ship outside UK and those who do often have significantly higher prices. Just today experienced this while buying the CPE Bach set. £42.06 is the "best" deal, but no delivery outside UK. The cheapest international offer is £51.43. That's no less than 22 % more! Amazon.de had a better deal (52.78 € delivered) and I ordered it from there. People living in "big" countries like US or UK don't necessarily understand that the good deals aren't always available for people living in other countries. Our "nordic" online music shop is cdon.com and you don't want to know how much it sucks. How about 17.95 € + shipping for your BIS discs? For those they happen to have available that is. Scared already?  >:D

I understand that it's difficult for you to obtain BIS recordings for a good price, but as far as experiencing it directly, you're right, I don't know or have a clue, but this isn't my fault of course.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMTwo of the three discs are there. The one with #2 and #6 oddly isn't.

Doesn't surprise me. Spotify isn't what its cracked up to be. I'm glad I was never a paid subscriber (like I need them anyway).

Mirror Image

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 08, 2016, 02:57:33 PMBack to recordings of the quirky Flute Concerto, my favorite is Julius Baker/Bernstein on SONY. There is restraint and artistry all done with professionalism and absolutely no showboating by Baker.

Another good one is this one which combines the Clarinet and Violin Concertos on budget price and is a steal at aftermarket price:


A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 08, 2016, 02:57:33 PMBTW what do you guys think of this set?



Not much. Paavo demonstrating, like his father, that he's bitten off more than he can chew and doesn't allow himself ample time to really absorb the composer's idiom. I've only heard the 3rd and 5th from that set and they were nothing special.

Mirror Image

#634
Helios Overture, Op. 17



The Nielsens had some good fortune in 1903. The composer's wife, Marie Carl-Nielsen, was a noted sculptor and had received the Ancker Scholarship. This carried with it a period of residence in Greece to study classical art. Meanwhile, the composer had earned money with his opera Saul and David and also received a permanent annual contract with the publishing firm of Hansen. Both feeling secure, they decided to go to Greece together. The artistic couple were treated as visiting celebrities. The Athens Conservatory provided Nielsen with a room with a view of the Acropolis, complete with piano. He was able to hike in the mountains, tour the galleries, and in general enjoy his popularity with the people and the warmth of the sunny Mediterranean climate. His visit included a trip to Constantinople and a dinner with King George I of Greece (who was Danish-born).

In general he sloughed off and wrote virtually nothing the entire year of 1903; this overture is the only substantial exception. Nielsen provided a simple program for the overture, the name of which is the Greek for "sun": "Silence and darkness/The sun rises with a joyous song of praise/It wanders on its golden way/And sinks quietly into the sea." The music is not physically descriptive; it is more about the feelings the sun arouses: exhilaration, veneration, and joy. It is a rich and glorious orchestral movement.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does everyone think of the Helios Overture? I think it's a glorious work that comes to life through Nielsen's extraordinary ear for beauty and otherworldliness. There's a bit of a heroic quality to the work as well that never fails to excite me. Any favorite performances? I'll go on record and say I haven't heard a bad performance of this work. My favorites being perhaps Rozhdestvensky and Dausgaard, I recall Martinon and Willen have great performances as well.

amw

Regarding BIS and prices—I've bought a few things from eclassical, because although used cds might at times be cheaper the shipping charges to New Zealand are pretty high regardless of reseller, putting the average price at NZ$25-30. (I could also pop down to the local CD shop and pay NZ$35.) For CD quality, eclassical charges me about NZ$12-16 for a 70 minute album, and I get it immediately. And if you're an audio person you can also get 24-bit studio masters though they're more expensive.

(That said, I requested the Oramo cycle through interlibrary loan and then ripped the CDs to my computer and sent them back, instead of buying them >.>)

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
If you haven't heard any of the afore mentioned conductors in Nielsen, I'd say you've got a lot of catching up to do. :)
Catching up to do for what? I buy and listen to music for my recreational pleasure, not to "catch up".

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMThen what you perceived isn't what I actually meant.
Yeah.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMI understand that it's difficult for you to obtain BIS recordings for a good price, but as far as experiencing it directly, you're right, I don't know or have a clue, but this isn't my fault of course.
Your fault it isn't. Some other things are perhaps harder for you to obtain than for me. The circumstances we live in shape the way we build our lives.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMDoesn't surprise me. Spotify isn't what its cracked up to be. I'm glad I was never a paid subscriber (like I need them anyway).
I have never been a paid Spotify subcriber either.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.
You have some catching up to do it seems.  ;D Sorry, couldn't resist the tempetation. I have this Naxos disc and I have nothing negative to say about it.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 04:25:13 PM
What does everyone think of the Helios Overture? I think it's a glorious work that comes to life through Nielsen's extraordinary ear for beauty and otherworldliness. There's a bit of a heroic quality to the work as well that never fails to excite me. Any favorite performances? I'll go on record and say I haven't heard a bad performance of this work. My favorites being perhaps Rozhdestvensky and Dausgaard, I recall Martinon and Willen have great performances as well.

Helios Overture was one of the first works I heard by Nielsen on radio and I love it. Such a great overture. I have Dausgaard on Dacapo and Willén on Naxos. Dausgaard is perhaps the better one of these.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

The new erato

A marvellous work indeed.

premont

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:08:10 AM
Review I wrote on Oramo's recording of Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3:



Title: Thrilling Nielsen From Oramo!


On your recommendation here I have acquired this recording (the Espansiva is the Nielsen-symphony I love the most), and I have to say, that this is a warm, passionate and brilliant interpretation, which easily takes the place among my favorite three Espansivas, the other two being Bernstein and Schønwandt. Thanks for insisting upon its qualities.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν