The Nielsen Nexus

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Catching up to do for what? I buy and listen to music for my recreational pleasure, not to "catch up".

If you're fan of Nielsen's music, then wouldn't you want to hear other performances besides Leaper's? Hearing different conductors' interpretations will open up the music for you even more IMHO. Not only that, but I was just joking around with you anyway (hence the smiley face).

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On your recommendation here I have acquired this recording (the Espansiva is the Nielsen-symphony I love the most), and I have to say, that this is a warm, passionate and brilliant interpretation, which easily takes the place among my favorite three Espansivas, the other two being Bernstein and Schønwandt. Thanks for insisting upon its qualities.

I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it, premont. Since you enjoyed this recording, do checkout Oramo's other ones. His Symphony No. 6, "Sinfonia Semplice" is the best I've heard IMHO.

[71 dB]

If you're fan of Nielsen's music, then wouldn't you want to hear other performances besides Leaper's? Hearing different conductors' interpretations will open up the music for you even more IMHO. Not only that, but I was just joking around with you anyway (hence the smiley face).

Well, I would want to do a lot of things, but I can't do it all. I would have to be a multimillionaire and live for 10.000 years. 

Elgar is one of the few composers I have several performances of and I must say opening up the music is not the term I'd use. Waste of money and bookshelf space is my reaction quite often. My first Elgar symphony cycle on Naxos still is my "to go to" cycle after all the Barbirolli, Boult, Elder etc. I feel that exploring new music is more fruitful use of my money. The point is I usually seek for a "better" performance when I feel the performance I have isn't that good. I feel that way about Elgar's The Severn Suite for Brass orchestra. I have a crappy sounding CRD Records disc. So there's something to upgrade.

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Well, I would want to do a lot of things, but I can't do it all. I would have to be a multimillionaire and live for 10.000 years. 

Elgar is one of the few composers I have several performances of and I must say opening up the music is not the term I'd use. Waste of money and bookshelf space is my reaction quite often. My first Elgar symphony cycle on Naxos still is my "to go to" cycle after all the Barbirolli, Boult, Elder etc. I feel that exploring new music is more fruitful use of my money. The point is I usually seek for a "better" performance when I feel the performance I have isn't that good. I feel that way about Elgar's The Severn Suite for Brass orchestra. I have a crappy sounding CRD Records disc. So there's something to upgrade.

Okay, that's certainly fine. You have you're own agenda and I have mine. A waste of money in your eyes is value added in mine. We'll never agree in terms of CD collecting, so I'll never bring it up to you again. Sound like a deal?

[71 dB]

Okay, that's certainly fine. You have you're own agenda and I have mine. A waste of money in your eyes is value added in mine. We'll never agree in terms of CD collecting, so I'll never bring it up to you again. Sound like a deal?

Thanks for the deal offer, but you are free to bring up things here. I'm all for the freedom of speech.

There might be aspects of CD collecting we do agree about. Sometimes I do feel another performance adds value, but not always.

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Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)



This ten-minute symphonic poem is one of the most striking and original of all Carl Nielsen's compositions. It is inspired by a Nordic legend called Njal's Saga. Gunnar of Hildarend, travelling with is brothers, makes an arduous crossing of the Tjors River. They stop to rest. He fell asleep and it was obvious he was having a dream. One of his brother's suggested waking him, but the other said "No! Let him sleep and dream his dream." The mood of the Saga-Dream comes from that line. It opens with a quiet and thoughtful introduction for strings. The music tried to form a chorale, but it floats away into formlessness like a dream. A fugal section again hints a the strands of the dream, and leads into a strange free-form cadenza for several instruments in which the voices of nature seem to be conversing. This is a strikingly "modern" passage, yet it is an exceptionally magical and beautiful moment. After that the chorale returns and coalesces into a more complete form, and a rested and tranquil coda finishes the work.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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More information:

While working on the music for Ludvig Holstein's drama Tove in the winter of 1907–08, Nielsen started to think about writing an orchestral piece based on Njal's Saga. The first traces of the introductory theme for clarinet and viola are to be found in Tove where it is played by a French horn. On 1 April 1908, just after completing Tove, Nielsen signed off the fair copy of Saga Drøm, only a few days before its scheduled performance.

Nielsen no doubt learnt of Njal's Saga and the piece's motto "Now Gunnar dreams; let him enjoy his dream in peace" from the translation by N.M. Petersen. The saga tells how Gunnar, on his way out of the country with Kolskeg and Hjort after being sentenced to exile, is so tired that he calls for a stop and falls into a troubled sleep. Hjort asks whether they should rouse him but Kolskeg replies, "No, let him enjoy his dream." In his dream, Gunnar imagines they are being attacked by wolves. He and Kolskeg manage to defend themselves but Hjort is killed. The others see Gunnar is having a nightmare but Kolskeg still insists that he should not be disturbed.

The unusual insertion of a free cadenza half way through the work may well explain why several of the reviewers were hesitant in condoning the piece. Kristeligt Dagblad referred specifically to "an intermezzo of a kind that can hardly be described in musical terms: it sounded more like an orchestra tuning up for a concert."

In an interview in Politiken published a few years later, Nielsen explained his work in some detail: "I am so fond of the work myself. It is kept almost piano all the time and musically it is very radical. It depicts the dream of Gunnar of Hlidarende, this marvellous figure from Njal's Saga who plundered and slaughtered, yet was still made of finer stuff and was ahead of his time. He dreams of a brighter, better future for mankind, and I have tried, in muted tones, to give voice to the strange ideas engendered in the dream. There are among other things four cadenzas for oboe, clarinet, bassoon and flute which run quite freely alongside one another, with no harmonic connection, and without my marking time. They are just like four streams of thought, each going its own way — differently and randomly for each performance — until they meet in a point of rest, as if flowing into a lock where they are united.

[Article taken from Wikipedia]

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Outside of the symphonies and concerti, this is one of Nielsen's finest works IMHO. The fantasy and dream-like soundscapes really take my mind somewhere else. Favorite performances are Rozhdestvensky and Willen. What do you guys think of the work?

[PerfectWagnerite]

A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.

Not much. Paavo demonstrating, like his father, that he's bitten off more than he can chew and doesn't allow himself ample time to really absorb the composer's idiom. I've only heard the 3rd and 5th from that set and they were nothing special.

Have not heard the Gallois because the cd is rather pricey. Usually for popular works like the Nielsen Flute Concerto I try to see what I can get cheaply first.

I think you are too hard on Paavo, I think he is much more interesting than his pop. Number 4 from the set is actually very good. I like the set because you get the Frankfurt RSO with a big beefy Teutonic sound, which makes a nice contrast to traditional Nielsen recordings with Scandanavian forces where the sound is usually lighter.

Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)

A marvelous work in all respects ! I did NOT know this work. Thanks for sharing.

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Have not heard the Gallois because the cd is rather pricey. Usually for popular works like the Nielsen Flute Concerto I try to see what I can get cheaply first.

I think you are too hard on Paavo, I think he is much more interesting than his pop. Number 4 from the set is actually very good. I like the set because you get the Frankfurt RSO with a big beefy Teutonic sound, which makes a nice contrast to traditional Nielsen recordings with Scandanavian forces where the sound is usually lighter.

Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)

A marvelous work in all respects ! I did NOT know this work. Thanks for sharing.

Saga-Drøm is, indeed, a great work and a favorite of mine. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah, I'm pretty critical of Paavo and he has some done good work (Sibelius and Pärt), but I've heard many lackluster performances from him and those Nielsen performances I heard didn't really 'jingle any of my bells' so to speak.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Regarding the Flute Concerto this one is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNfUDa4uTg

Talk about Wunderkind, that kid is 12 !

[prémont]

I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it, premont. Since you enjoyed this recording, do checkout Oramo's other ones. His Symphony No. 6, "Sinfonia Semplice" is the best I've heard IMHO.

Thanks, noted in my book. 

[71 dB]

Since MI has been raving Oramo's Nielsen #3, I listened to it on Spotify yesterday and compared it to Leaper. Not sure, what I should have heard. Fine performance sure (perhaps a bit too aggressive, "brassy" to be Nielsen which is a bit feminine/"woodwindy" music imo). I'm still happy with the Leaper cycle.  0:)

It's been years since I listened to Nielsen's symphonies. I was surprised how little the music did for me. Maybe I am not in Nielsen mood? Have I outgrown Nielsen? Can't be! 

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Since MI has been raving Oramo's Nielsen #3, I listened to it on Spotify yesterday and compared it to Leaper. Not sure, what I should have heard. Fine performance sure (perhaps a bit too aggressive, "brassy" to be Nielsen which is a bit feminine/"woodwindy" music imo). I'm still happy with the Leaper cycle.  0:)

It's been years since I listened to Nielsen's symphonies. I was surprised how little the music did for me. Maybe I am not in Nielsen mood? Have I outgrown Nielsen? Can't be! 

I prefer some aggression in Nielsen and the briskness of the overall tempi used by Oramo served the music rather well. I also like my Nielsen 'brassy' since those particular parts beg to be played rather forcibly, especially at climaxes throughout the symphony.

I also seriously doubt you've 'outgrown' Nielsen. I think you simply weren't attuned to the music at that point. I'm a believer that music that we love is music that never grows old or tiresome --- it's simply a part of us and, in many cases, we don't listen to our favorites too often because we know these are special composers. But it is inevitable that someone, who's curious about this music, will want to continue to seek out new composers and develop new favorites.

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Over the course of the weekend (or my weekend rather ---- Sunday and Monday), I'll be revisiting Gilbert's Nielsen cycle on Dacapo with the New York Philharmonic. I'm ashamed to have to admit that I haven't even heard the concertos recording. Reading many positive reviews on MusicWeb and elsewhere recently is when I decided to revisit the Gilbert cycle and give it another shot. Can foreign bodies to Nielsen's idiom produce markedly superlative performances? That's what I'll find out for myself.

[71 dB]

I prefer some aggression in Nielsen and the briskness of the overall tempi used by Oramo served the music rather well. I also like my Nielsen 'brassy' since those particular parts beg to be played rather forcibly, especially at climaxes throughout the symphony.

Oh. I found the brass aggression almost distracting. I felt that "Andante Pastorale" was the most successful movement for Oramo surpassing that of Leaper.

I also seriously doubt you've 'outgrown' Nielsen. I think you simply weren't attuned to the music at that point. I'm a believer that music that we love is music that never grows old or tiresome --- it's simply a part of us and, in many cases, we don't listen to our favorites too often because we know these are special composers. But it is inevitable that someone, who's curious about this music, will want to continue to seek out new composers and develop new favorites.

You are probably right here and I better try Nielsen again later. At the moment my mind is in the music of C.P.E. Bach and I also enjoy LFO's and Autechre's techno sounds.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Can foreign bodies to Nielsen's idiom produce markedly superlative performances? That's what I'll find out for myself.

You are not entertaining the notion that only Scandanavian ensembles can produce great Nielsen right? There are some great Nielsen recordings by "foreign bodies" like Bernstein from the '60s and the justly famous Martinon Chicago SO 4th Symphony. Each just as punchy and trenchant as anything by Scandanavian forces and in the case of Martinon brass playing that none has surpassed.

Even HvK produced some very interesting if somewhat controversial Nielsen recordings.

[vandermolen]

Saga-Drom is very fine. My daughter has asked me to take her to a classical concert so I hope to go to the concert featuring Sibelius's 'Prelude to the Tempest' and Nielsen's 5th Symphony at the Proms in London on 1st August - so, I really look forward to that.

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You are not entertaining the notion that only Scandanavian ensembles can produce great Nielsen right? There are some great Nielsen recordings by "foreign bodies" like Bernstein from the '60s and the justly famous Martinon Chicago SO 4th Symphony. Each just as punchy and trenchant as anything by Scandanavian forces and in the case of Martinon brass playing that none has surpassed.

Even HvK produced some very interesting if somewhat controversial Nielsen recordings.

That's very true, Wagnerite. Bernstein yielded some remarkable results in Nielsen as did Martinon in Chicago. Mehta has a smokin' 4th via LA Philharmonic that's worth looking into. I need to reacquaint myself HvK's Inextinguishable.

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Saga-Drom is very fine. My daughter has asked me to take her to a classical concert so I hope to go to the concert featuring Sibelius's 'Prelude to the Tempest' and Nielsen's 5th Symphony at the Proms in London on 1st August - so, I really look forward to that.

Very nice, Jeffrey. It's good to get the whole family involved in our obsession, isn't it?

P.S. Who's the conductor/orchestra in this program of Sibelius and Nielsen?

[vandermolen]

Very nice, Jeffrey. It's good to get the whole family involved in our obsession, isn't it?

P.S. Who's the conductor/orchestra in this program of Sibelius and Nielsen?

Yes, I'm very pleased that my daughter wants to come John (even my wife is being dragged along  ).
John Storgards is conducting the BBC PO. This morning I was listening to John Barbirolli's recording of Bax's Third Symphony and thinking what a fine conductor he was. So, in anticipation of the concert I have ordered this interesting looking CD:
[asin]B01CPQKXWQ[/asin]
I'm very interested to see what Barbirolli makes of the Nielsen. There is a letter from Vaughan Williams in which he wrote that he only made sense of a Nielsen symphony (No.5 I think or possibly No.4) after hearing Barbirolli conduct it.

PS there are three separate Johns in this message 

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Yes, I'm very pleased that my daughter wants to come John (even my wife is being dragged along  ).
John Storgards is conducting the BBC PO. This morning I was listening to John Barbirolli's recording of Bax's Third Symphony and thinking what a fine conductor he was. So, in anticipation of the concert I have ordered this interesting looking CD:
[asin]B01CPQKXWQ[/asin]
I'm very interested to see what Barbirolli makes of the Nielsen. There is a letter from Vaughan Williams in which he wrote that he only made sense of a Nielsen symphony (No.5 I think or possibly No.4) after hearing Barbirolli conduct it.

PS there are three separate Johns in this message 

Thanks, Jeffrey. I hope you and your family enjoy that concert (if you decide to attend). This Barbirolli recording is the same exact performance as this earlier issue (I believe), which I own already:



But not knowing Barbirolli's discography as intimately as you do, I could very well be wrong as he's probably conducted Nielsen several times.

Special edit: If I could actually read, I see that this Barbirolli is of the performance of the 5th NOT the 4th. Whoops....