Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Todd]

So you like the Ciccolini?

Meh.  Some of the sonatas work very well, some not at all.  It's not in my top 20 cycles, I'll say that.

[George]

This reminds me, I've yet to investigate Annie Fischer's cycle. Is there a boxset available or should one locate the individual issues?

Here's a link to the set:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00005YK81/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1212160244&sr=8-1
(Go with Newbury Comics, the best seller on amazon IMO)


I wrote this amazon review last year and will post it here because it best describes my feelings about the Annie Fischer set and some others as well.

I happen to know for a fact that there are a number of you out there who are finding it hard to decide to pay the asking price for this set. Therefore, I shall try to explain why you should do so, immediately.

First of all, I will say that I own complete cyles by Gulda, Fischer, Schnabel, Kempff (mono), Kovacevich and Backhaus (stereo). Of these, Annie's is my favorite complete set. Easily. I also own single/double discs by Serkin, Richter, Moravec, Horowitz, Gilels, Goode, O'Conor, Pollini, Kempff (stereo), Arrau, Brendel, Jando and Rubinstein. Annie also trumps many of these as well.

Secondly, I must say that Annie's cycle is remarkably consistent, I think she does excellent or superb on 25 of the 32. In the others, she is fair or good. In my experience, this is no small feat, in fact only Gulda equals her in consistency, though not in quality. Gulda tends to rush through these works, something which doesn't always come off well and even when it does, he still lack's Fischer's depth. Schnabel's legendary set, now available on Naxos from European sellers with excellent transfers by Mark Obert-Thorn, is of course very consistent and superbly played. However, many will likely pass on this set due to the historical sound. Kempff plays these works on a smaller scale that doesn't always work for me, though few can match his tone and beauty. Backhaus's more masculine approach is more to my liking, though his slow movements are played too fast, like Gulda, and therefore lack depth. Kovacevich's set is more aggressive than even Annie's. Fischer is surprisingly agressive when needed and deeply touching and sensitive when appropriate. She handles all three of the main periods of Lvb's works with equal achievement, an incredible feat.

Third, the quality of her playing simply has to be heard to be believed. The opening to her Appassionata sonata dispels all worries that you might have that she isn't up the job. You can listen here at Amazon on the page that hold the single disc from this set. It sounds like thunder from the heavens, as does the finale here and in the Moonlight Sonata. She finds young energy in the early works and confident strength and power in the heroic middle sonatas. Her Op. 31 is easily my favorite, combining a great sense of rhythm, drama and beauty. Her Late Sonatas are incredibly profound and gorgeous. Without resorting to some of the more extreme tempo choices others have made, she finds a style all her own that works magnificently. In fact, her tempo choices are almost always just right, never rushing, nor letting the tempo sag.

Fourth, when compared to her closest rivals, Schnabel, Gulda, and Kempff, her set has superior sound. She plays a gorgeously dark sounding Bosendorfer that was recorded remarkably well. Her recordings were made in the 70's and 80's and the close miking accurately conveys her sweet tone and powerful fortes of her instrument. Sure, Goode and Kovacevich may have better sound, but IMO they don't play at her level. Goode's interpretations lack excitement at times, while Kovacevich seems to focus a bit too much on excitement.

Fifth, you will notice that the price changes from time to time by some of the marketplace sellers, buying it now saves you from paying more for it later. More importantly, there may not even be a later, for this set is hard to find as it is. This can certainly suggest that it may not stay in print. With talent like this, why gamble? This is mostly a matter of taste of course, I suggest that you listen to the samples here and compare for yourself. I really don't think that you'll be sorry if you choose Annie, though!

[George]

Meh.  Some of the sonatas work very well, some not at all.  It's not in my top 20 cycles, I'll say that.

I had high hopes for it, as I just heard his wonderful Chopin Nocturnes. I do need to hear the rest though. Perhaps there are some diamonds in the rough. 

For example - Bernard Roberts has one of the worst cycles I have heard, yet he also has a few works where I think very few can equal him (Op.110, Moonlight Sonata - off the top of my head.)

[The new erato]

"Temporarily out of the catalog, I hope."

Versus "temporarily, out of the catalog I hope" as you seemed to have read it, little sense as it might make this way.


In other words he hopes it will be back in the catalog before long; interesting misinterpretation, though.

Wouldn't "only temporarily out of the catalogue, I hope" be better (and unequivocal), I read that he hoped it was temporarily out of the catalogue whereas I would hope it was in the catalogue...whether temporarily or not.

Well, no matter really.....but I really misunderstood that.

[Harry]

Wouldn't "only temporarily out of the catalogue, I hope" be better (and unequivocal), I read that he hoped it was temporarily out of the catalogue whereas I would hope it was in the catalogue...whether temporarily or not.

Well, no matter really.....but I really misunderstood that.

Yes it should have been "Only temporarily out of the catalogue, I hope.
Sorry for the confusion. After reading it, I wondered too!

[Anne]

To add to other excellent suggestions: Emil Gilels

I agree with Bunny: Gilels.

[The new erato]

Yes it should have been "Only temporarily out of the catalogue, I hope.
Sorry for the confusion. After reading it, I wondered too!

OK, we're good! 

[George]

I agree with Bunny: Gilels.

If only his outer movements were faster, he'd be a top choice for sure. His slow movements are unmatched IMO.

[Wanderer]

Here's a link to the set:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00005YK81/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1212160244&sr=8-1
(Go with Newbury Comics, the best seller on amazon IMO)


I wrote this amazon review last year and will post it here because it best describes my feelings about the Annie Fischer set and some others as well.

I happen to know for a fact that there are a number of you out there who are finding it hard to decide to pay the asking price for this set. Therefore, I shall try to explain why you should do so, immediately.

First of all, I will say that I own complete cyles by Gulda, Fischer, Schnabel, Kempff (mono), Kovacevich and Backhaus (stereo). Of these, Annie's is my favorite complete set. Easily. I also own single/double discs by Serkin, Richter, Moravec, Horowitz, Gilels, Goode, O'Conor, Pollini, Kempff (stereo), Arrau, Brendel, Jando and Rubinstein. Annie also trumps many of these as well.

Secondly, I must say that Annie's cycle is remarkably consistent, I think she does excellent or superb on 25 of the 32. In the others, she is fair or good. In my experience, this is no small feat, in fact only Gulda equals her in consistency, though not in quality. Gulda tends to rush through these works, something which doesn't always come off well and even when it does, he still lack's Fischer's depth. Schnabel's legendary set, now available on Naxos from European sellers with excellent transfers by Mark Obert-Thorn, is of course very consistent and superbly played. However, many will likely pass on this set due to the historical sound. Kempff plays these works on a smaller scale that doesn't always work for me, though few can match his tone and beauty. Backhaus's more masculine approach is more to my liking, though his slow movements are played too fast, like Gulda, and therefore lack depth. Kovacevich's set is more aggressive than even Annie's. Fischer is surprisingly agressive when needed and deeply touching and sensitive when appropriate. She handles all three of the main periods of Lvb's works with equal achievement, an incredible feat.

Third, the quality of her playing simply has to be heard to be believed. The opening to her Appassionata sonata dispels all worries that you might have that she isn't up the job. You can listen here at Amazon on the page that hold the single disc from this set. It sounds like thunder from the heavens, as does the finale here and in the Moonlight Sonata. She finds young energy in the early works and confident strength and power in the heroic middle sonatas. Her Op. 31 is easily my favorite, combining a great sense of rhythm, drama and beauty. Her Late Sonatas are incredibly profound and gorgeous. Without resorting to some of the more extreme tempo choices others have made, she finds a style all her own that works magnificently. In fact, her tempo choices are almost always just right, never rushing, nor letting the tempo sag.

Fourth, when compared to her closest rivals, Schnabel, Gulda, and Kempff, her set has superior sound. She plays a gorgeously dark sounding Bosendorfer that was recorded remarkably well. Her recordings were made in the 70's and 80's and the close miking accurately conveys her sweet tone and powerful fortes of her instrument. Sure, Goode and Kovacevich may have better sound, but IMO they don't play at her level. Goode's interpretations lack excitement at times, while Kovacevich seems to focus a bit too much on excitement.

Fifth, you will notice that the price changes from time to time by some of the marketplace sellers, buying it now saves you from paying more for it later. More importantly, there may not even be a later, for this set is hard to find as it is. This can certainly suggest that it may not stay in print. With talent like this, why gamble? This is mostly a matter of taste of course, I suggest that you listen to the samples here and compare for yourself. I really don't think that you'll be sorry if you choose Annie, though!

Thanks, George!

Unfortunately, amazon sellers don't ship to Greece; even if they did, this box - coming from the US of A -  is expensive enough to get me in business with customs.
I'll try locating it through a European source or hunt down the individual discs... or just wait for an eventual reissue.

[Drasko]

I'll try locating it through a European source or hunt down the individual discs... or just wait for an eventual reissue.

Hungaroton site cites this as their Greek distributor, how much up to date that is don't know but you could try.

DISCOPHILE
Neocles Bravos
13,Ippocratous street
10679 Athens,Greece
tel/fax:0030-210-3600030
discophile@ath.forthnet.gr

[Wanderer]

Hungaroton site cites this as their Greek distributor, how much up to date that is don't know but you could try.

DISCOPHILE
Neocles Bravos
13,Ippocratous street
10679 Athens,Greece
tel/fax:0030-210-3600030
discophile@ath.forthnet.gr

...or just go there. I know where this store is (in an arcade - incidentally, just across the street from the Athens Bar - where most Athenian classical music stores are located), although it's very likely to be overpriced.

Thanks a lot, Drasko! 

[George]

...or just go there. I know where this store is (in an arcade - incidentally, just across the street from the Athens Bar - where most Athenian classical music stores are located), although it's very likely to be overpriced.

Thanks a lot, Drasko! 

Drasko is indeed the man when it comes to CD searching. 

[Wanderer]

Drasko is indeed the man when it comes to CD searching. 

By the way, George, that was a very good review. I quoted it in full in order to have it available/attached in my line of posts (see previous posts feature) for future reference.

[George]

By the way, George, that was a very good review. I quoted it in full in order to have it available/attached in my line of posts (see previous posts feature) for future reference.

Thanks very much. I edited the "GMG version" for spelling and grammar mistakes. I spent a few hours on the original too, IIRC. 

[Holden]

After you've made your decision and purchased a set and then listened to it, it will be time for you to go out and acquire performances of the individual sonatas the really appeal. There are part or full cycles out there that have some incredible performances and these are worth seeking out.

For example, both Kovacevich and Dubravka Tomsic  have made recordings of the Waldstein that have blown me away and nobody comes close to matching those with the possible exception of Gilels. Richter owns the Appassionata IMO but listen to Gilels' live Moscow performance from 1960 and you hear a definite rival along with Rubinstein's jaw dropping 1945 rendition.

Op 111 also throws up some candidates but for me it's a toss up between Barenboim (EMI) and Arrau (Classic Archives DVD). Moravec plays the best version of Op 90 that I've heard and then there's Richter again who has produced a peerless version of Op 13 (Moscow 1960). Who can match the brooding intensity of Solomon's "Moonlight" or Hungerford's deep and mystical op 31/3. I could go on and maybe we need a thread or two about favourite recordings of individual LvB PS recordings. One day I'll sit down and burn a compilation '32' from my favourites for each work.

[George]

For example, both Kovacevich and Dubravka Tomsic  have made recordings of the Waldstein that have blown me away and nobody comes close to matching those with the possible exception of Gilels.

Have you heard Serkin's mono recording of this work? 

[George]

Op 111 also throws up some candidates but for me it's a toss up between Barenboim (EMI) and Arrau (Classic Archives DVD).

For me Yudina delivers the best version of this one. Serkin's unreleased Op. 110 (1960) is unparalleled.

... maybe we need a thread or two about favourite recordings of individual LvB PS recordings.

Now you're talking. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Goode isn't boring, of course.

He just happily strolls along in this music without mannerisms, without distorting, without showboating, without bludgeoning, etc...

Just give him a Beethoven score and let him dig, dig, dig. Dig with his powerful vision (that powerful X-ray vision he has! ) to uncover all the wondrous shapes and felicities which fill out the musical argument. All the while keeping a lively watch on the music's forward momentum. No bar line sag, ever.

If he lacks an 'angle' that's to his credit. The music simply...'simmers' (to its benefit) under his imaginative touch.

So, in short: gimme Goode any day. Despite rival cycles. 

No doubt some will be wondering from whence I derived this krazy konklusion. To them I offer a rundown of my credentials...

...I own Annie Fischer's cycle, Kempff's mono cycle, Gilels DG (near) cycle, along with tons of Richter...plus various individual CDs of Backhaus, Hobson, Solomon, McCawley, Pogorelich, Perahia, Friedman, Vogt, and who knows how many others over the years.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I would also add that despite all the adulation that Annie Fischer's set seems to have garnered on this thread I've yet to be wowed by it. Particularly the early sonatas bug me as they lack the youthful ardor so important to bringing these works off.

[Don]

My favored performers are Gilels, A. Fischer, Gulda, Richter, Brendel, Sheppard and Sherman.