Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

Thanks for all of these suggestions, much obliged! 

Off-topic, George I totally agree on the Barenboim/Barbirolli Brahms -- long time favorite of mine.  I think it's tied with his Mahler 6 for my favorite recording from that conductor; rugged, powerful stuff.

Fully agree! Barbirolli's M6 is a force to be reckoned with.

[staxomega]

Op.109:
Maria Tipo (studio) A+, (live) A

Op.110:
Takahiro Sonoda III (Evica) B+

Both of the Tipo Op. 109 were among my favorite Beethoven piano sonata discoveries from last year. I should hear them again to compare/contrast. On the disc with Op. 53 there is something very unusual- you can hear birds chirping in some of the quieter passages!

I have also really been taken with Takahiro Sonoda's Evica Op. 110, that left handed playing is something else.

[prémont]

Who are your favorites in these sonatas?  Are there any tips you might offer to a less experienced listener to aid in navigating these works?

Other than the above mentioned I have a faint spot among others for Badura-Skoda, Lucchesini and Solomon.

[Mandryka]

What would you recommend after that?  I'm thinking Gilels and Backhaus, maybe Charles Rosen...

Who are your favorites in these sonatas?  Are there any tips you might offer to a less experienced listener to aid in navigating these works?

If you want a modern piano, I think you should try a completely different approach, I think you should see what you make of Schiff's colourful, light, and lyrical way with Beethoven, he'll have you singing along and tapping your toes like with pop music.

[Mandryka]

Having spent parts of the last several days getting caught up on this thread, I followed it up by enjoying some excellent Beethoven on video .... Kempff performing the Moonlight and #27, followed by Gulda & Szell WP in the Emperor Concerto.  I thought the Moonlight sonata was particularly lovely in this recording:

I think the Schumann on this DVD is interesting.

[Florestan]

If you want a modern piano, I think you should try a completely different approach, I think you should see what you make of Schiff's colourful, light, and lyrical way with Beethoven, he'll have you singing along and tapping your toes like with pop music.

You mean this, right?



If yes, thanks for the tip.

[Mandryka]

Yes I do.

[jwinter]

Yes I do.

Duly noted.  I have lots of Schiff in Bach, Mozart, and Schubert, but not in Beethoven... I may need to check that out.  How would you compare Schiff to Richard Goode or Paul Lewis -- in a similar vein?

Much obliged to all for the suggestions!

[George]

Duly noted.  I have lots of Schiff in Bach, Mozart, and Schubert, but not in Beethoven... I may need to check that out.  How would you compare Schiff to Richard Goode or Paul Lewis -- in a similar vein?

Much obliged to all for the suggestions!

While I am not a fan of Schiff's Beethoven, I am curious which LvB complete sonata sets you own.

[Mandryka]

Duly noted.  I have lots of Schiff in Bach, Mozart, and Schubert, but not in Beethoven... I may need to check that out.  How would you compare Schiff to Richard Goode or Paul Lewis -- in a similar vein?

Much obliged to all for the suggestions!

I don't know Goode or Lewis well enough to comment, what I can say is this, in the late sonatas, in op 111,  Schiff plays the music like a troubadour, a jongleur. My thought was that this is so different from Kempff etc that, given that you're stuck, it's worth a try.

But really, you can hear for yourself easily enough can't you? They're all easily available.

[Brian]

Duly noted.  I have lots of Schiff in Bach, Mozart, and Schubert, but not in Beethoven... I may need to check that out.  How would you compare Schiff to Richard Goode or Paul Lewis -- in a similar vein?

Much obliged to all for the suggestions!

The general consensus around here is that Goode and Lewis make very pretty sounds, but aren't too interesting deep down. I have only heard 5-6 sonatas from each of the three pianists, but expect Schiff to be livelier, less constantly legato, and more "historically informed" - like a HIP performance on a modern piano.

[San Antone]

The general consensus around here is that Goode and Lewis make very pretty sounds, but aren't too interesting deep down. I have only heard 5-6 sonatas from each of the three pianists, but expect Schiff to be livelier, less constantly legato, and more "historically informed" - like a HIP performance on a modern piano.

I'd say that Goode is somewhat more muscular than Lewis (who I think does a better job with Schubert) but yeah, neither is top tier, although certainly worthwhile.  I'd agree that the Schiff ECM New Series recordings reflect his more recent HIP orientation, albeit on modern piano.  A style of playing that is more evident in his Bach recordings, but I think the newer ECM recordings of either composer are measurably better than what he had recorded previously.  Also ECM's recorded sound is a pleasure to listen to.

Of all the pianists mentioned on this page, my vote would be for Schiff/ECM.

[prémont]

Duly noted.  I have lots of Schiff in Bach, Mozart, and Schubert, but not in Beethoven... I may need to check that out.  How would you compare Schiff to Richard Goode or Paul Lewis -- in a similar vein?

Much obliged to all for the suggestions!

I find Goode rather straight and unsophisticated and a bit boring.
Lewis is a prettified variety of Kempff (if that is possible) but without his insight.
Schiff is concerned about micro-details and a bit mannered. Tiring in the long run.

[jwinter]

While I am not a fan of Schiff's Beethoven, I am curious which LvB complete sonata sets you own.

Since you asked ... I went through a period several years ago (back when I was a regular member of the forum) when I bought and collected a great number of recordings.  As I'm sure many folks here can relate, it's very easy to acquire a box set with 5 or 15 or 50 CDs -- it's another matter entirely to devote the time to listen to and really appreciate the music.  I acquired what I considered a good basic library of the "standard repertoire"/warhorses/classics/whatever you wish to call them, focusing mostly on orchestral music, and then went on to acquire things like kids, added job responsibility, parents with health issues, etc., which resulted in my losing some things like extraneous time, CD budget, etc.


My kids are getting older now, which frees up some time, and I'm now spending some of it getting re-acquainted (or in many cases acquainted, if I'm honest) with some of the recordings I piled up back in the day.  Up until last month I hadn't bought a classical CD in about 4-5 years.  I made an exception for the big Szell Columbia recording set, and am now very cautiously picking up a few choice items (such as the Marzendorfer Haydn set that I mentioned in the Haydn thread). 


All of which is preamble to an embarrassingly long list of cycles owned by someone who still doesn't quite "get" the later sonatas.  I clearly need to spend some time listening to what I've already got, and intend to.  I have physical copies of the following sets, off the top of my head.  I also have a couple more in MP3 format, notably Annie Fischer, and some random assortments of sonatas by other pianists.



Arrau
Backhaus stereo
Barenboim DG
Brendel III
Frank
Gilels
Goode
Gulda (Amadeo)
Heidsieck
Kempff mono
Kovacevich
Kuerti
Lewis
Nat
O'Conor
Schnabel (Naxos)


Recommendations for good places to go within the above list are very welcome, though I'll also bank information on other sets (such as Schiff) for the future. 


Thanks for listening, and for all of the recommendations and guidance! 

[George]

...snip....

Arrau
Backhaus stereo
Barenboim DG
Brendel III
Frank
Gilels
Goode
Gulda (Amadeo)
Heidsieck
Kempff mono
Kovacevich
Kuerti
Lewis
Nat
O'Conor
Schnabel (Naxos)

Recommendations for good places to go within the above list are very welcome, though I'll also bank information on other sets (such as Schiff) for the future. 

Thanks for sharing all that!

Wow, you have an impressive list of complete LvB sets, there. I think your idea to listen more is a wise one. 

Looking at your list, the ones that I find to be the most consistent and enjoyable:

Backhaus stereo - Great sound and nearly as well performed as his mono set. He's such a knowing guide through this great music. One feels as if they are in good hands listening to him play Beethoven.
Gulda (Amadeo) - A top three Beethoven set, IMO. (Annie Fischer and Lucchesini being the other two) Love his clean, fast way of playing. Comes off as Beethoven as young adult.
Kempff mono - Surprisingly solid mono sound, performance here certainly betters his later stereo set on DG. Less fireworks, more beauty.
Schnabel (Naxos) - Urgent, spontaneous sounding playing here. I love this classic set. And I love Mark Obert-Thorn's musical/listenable transfers.

As for where to go with what you have, I would suggest listening through one or more of them in order. I think that Backhaus and Gulda would be your best guide through the structure of the works. For the emotional aspect, Annie Fischer and Schnabel are second to none. And for the beauty of the music, Kempff mono and Lucchesini should be of great help. I realize you don't have the Lucchesini, I just mention him because after years of thinking I had all the Beethoven sonata sets I'd ever need, I found his set used for a great price and was immediately hooked on his playing, which is live on this set.

[Brian]

I agree pretty much 100% with George's post.

In addition I want to note that quite a few of the cycles you own are known to be "eccentric." Not in a BAD way, but in a way that is to say that they're more for connoisseurs and Beethoven junkies and weirdos like me, rather than somebody who is just trying to "get" the pieces for the first time. These more oddball performers would include Gilels (very very romantic, often rather slow - I think they're totally wonderful), Heidsieck, Lewis (as described above), Nat (very "French"), Gulda (the exact opposite of Gilels), and honestly some of the stereo Backhaus too.

Again - not to insult those performers. They all are capable of achieving big highs. But they're more individualized vs. somebody like Kempff who can guide a first-timer through without seeming to have a "bias". And they also occasionally simply miss - like I love Heidsieck in most of the sonatas, but his "Pastoral" really annoys me with its weirdness.

[prémont]

Arrau
Backhaus stereo
Barenboim DG
Brendel III
Frank
Gilels
Goode
Gulda (Amadeo)
Heidsieck
Kempff mono
Kovacevich
Kuerti
Lewis
Nat
O'Conor
Schnabel (Naxos)

This is a great selection with most of the important styles covered, which should help you to get into the sonatas. So begin with listening to those you already own.

I agree with George about Lucchesini, but particularly as to the late sonatas I find Pollini's clear-cut technically peerless interpretation mandatory. Also Solomon and both Serkins.

[George]

This is a great selection with most of the important styles covered, which should help you to get into the sonatas. So begin with listening to those you already own.

I agree with George about Lucchesini, but particularly as to the late sonatas I find Pollini's clear-cut technically peerless interpretation mandatory. Also Solomon and both Serkins.

I fully agree about Pollini's late sonatas. 

[Madiel]

Funny things, tastes.

I'm about to buy Goode because I like what I've heard.

Whereas I've twice listened to the first movement of Sonata No.1 in the Lucchesini set, because people here keep raving about that set, and I just went "yuck" and turned it off.

[George]

By the way, jwinter, thanks for bringing up this subject again. I had long been stuck in a non-classical rut so it's been nice to revisit Beethoven's music via CD 06 of my Lucchesini set.

And I wouldn't worry about "getting" the late works, they are certainly a challenge. Beethoven was reaching beyond himself there. I remember buying Kempff's DG CD of the popular works years ago and really enjoying it, so I quickly bought his 2CD set of the late sonatas and found that this was very different music. I was disappointed. I persisted though and one day I tried to listen to just the slow movement of Op. 106. I was smitten. So I stubbornly listened to the full two discs until things began to click. Not saying I completely get them, even after all these years, but much like the late quartets, I am sure enjoying the journey.