Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

By the way, jwinter, thanks for bringing up this subject again. I had long been stuck in a non-classical rut so it's been nice to revisit Beethoven's music via CD 06 of my Lucchesini set.

And I wouldn't worry about "getting" the late works, they are certainly a challenge. Beethoven was reaching beyond himself there. I remember buying Kempff's DG CD of the popular works years ago and really enjoying it, so I quickly bought his 2CD set of the late sonatas and found that this was very different music. I was disappointed. I persisted though and one day I tried to listen to just the slow movement of Op. 106. I was smitten. So I stubbornly listened to the full two discs until things began to click. Not saying I completely get them, even after all these years, but much like the late quartets, I am sure enjoying the journey. 

[JBS]

Funny things, tastes.


Whereas I've twice listened to the first movement of Sonata No.1 in the Lucchesini set, because people here keep raving about that set, and I just went "yuck" and turned it off.

That's my experience with Annie Fischer. Whatever it is other people hear in her performance, I don't hear it. I thought she came off as too calculated.

And I rather like Paul Lewis, whereas most people here are not very keen on him.
Have not heard Lucchesini.

I may have been lucky with the last three sonatas. My first encounter with them was this
[asin]B0000AH3EO[/asin]
Which unlocked them for me in very short order.

[jwinter]

Many thanks for all of the kind replies!

Just to be clear, I am pretty comfortable with about half of the sonatas, but am still getting to really know (i.e. really understand the structure) the rest.  I wouldn't call myself a newbie by any means, but the literature out there is vast and my ears not formally trained -- but then that's half the fun!

I will keep on listening, and am happy to have such thoughtful guides to assist along the way.

Cheers!

[George]

Just to be clear, I am pretty comfortable with about half of the sonatas, but am still getting to really know (i.e. really understand the structure) the rest. 

In my opinion, no one presents the structure of the sonatas more clearly than Backhaus. For that reason, I think he will be your best guide.

[jwinter]

Amongst the partial sets I have are both Serkin and Solomon  -- I may try one of those tomorrow


Thanks to all

[Brian]

Serkin is so great. Nothing flamboyant or "special", he just has immaculate taste and smarts. Probably honestly my favorite of all the people who have been discussed in the past page (except Lucchesini).

[Mandryka]

Since you asked ... I went through a period several years ago (back when I was a regular member of the forum) when I bought and collected a great number of recordings.  As I'm sure many folks here can relate, it's very easy to acquire a box set with 5 or 15 or 50 CDs -- it's another matter entirely to devote the time to listen to and really appreciate the music.  I acquired what I considered a good basic library of the "standard repertoire"/warhorses/classics/whatever you wish to call them, focusing mostly on orchestral music, and then went on to acquire things like kids, added job responsibility, parents with health issues, etc., which resulted in my losing some things like extraneous time, CD budget, etc.


My kids are getting older now, which frees up some time, and I'm now spending some of it getting re-acquainted (or in many cases acquainted, if I'm honest) with some of the recordings I piled up back in the day.  Up until last month I hadn't bought a classical CD in about 4-5 years.  I made an exception for the big Szell Columbia recording set, and am now very cautiously picking up a few choice items (such as the Marzendorfer Haydn set that I mentioned in the Haydn thread). 


All of which is preamble to an embarrassingly long list of cycles owned by someone who still doesn't quite "get" the later sonatas.  I clearly need to spend some time listening to what I've already got, and intend to.  I have physical copies of the following sets, off the top of my head.  I also have a couple more in MP3 format, notably Annie Fischer, and some random assortments of sonatas by other pianists.



Arrau
Backhaus stereo
Barenboim DG
Brendel III
Frank
Gilels
Goode
Gulda (Amadeo)
Heidsieck
Kempff mono
Kovacevich
Kuerti
Lewis
Nat
O'Conor
Schnabel (Naxos)


Recommendations for good places to go within the above list are very welcome, though I'll also bank information on other sets (such as Schiff) for the future. 


Thanks for listening, and for all of the recommendations and guidance! 

Amongst the partial sets I have are both Serkin and Solomon  -- I may try one of those tomorrow


Thanks to all

Quite honestly I think you should give up on the late piano sonatas. If you're not enjoying any of them from that collection, they're not for you, and I wouldn't waste any more time and money.

[jwinter]

Quite honestly I think you should give up on the late piano sonatas. If you're not enjoying any of them from that collection, they're not for you, and I wouldn't waste any more time and money.

Hi.  I would certainly agree, if I had taken the time to listen closely to all of the above and still came up blank... but I haven't.  George asked me which cycles I *owned* rather than which cycles I knew intimately and enjoyed.  While I've listened to bits and pieces from that long list, I've tended to focus on the familiar (think Moonlight, Waldstein, etc.).  So I know some of the sonatas well, but I've mostly avoided the late ones until recently, and am ready to remedy that -- which is why I asked if anyone had favorite interpretations they might recommend.  I wanted some guidance in attacking my large pile of partially-or-not-yet-heard CDs.  Make sense?

[Jo498]

With a few exceptions, I think the role of particular (or of listening to many dozens of different) interpretation/s is vastly overrated in "understanding" or "getting" pieces of music. (The exceptions mostly concern either very performance-dependent music like a lot of music before ca. 1700 or organ music with very different instruments and styles. And very excentric or odd interpretations.)

I also do not think it helpful to think of five rather different sonatas as one block.

Nothing wrong with listening to different recordings if one already has them available, but I would not expect revelations from the 13th one. The mere familiarity that sometimes will change into some kind of "understanding" can almost as well be gained by listening to the same recording many times.

So I would not give up. Either focus on the stuff you already like well enough or "systematically attack" pieces that seem thorny or so by listening to them closely or consulting listener's guides or the like.

[Madiel]

If you're looking for a gateway into the late sonatas I suggest op.110, which personally I find one of the most approachable.

I tend to agree that a tonne of different interpretations aren't going to make a BIG difference. But it can be true that a piece might not click with one performance and then succeed with another.

[staxomega]

Funny things, tastes.

I'm about to buy Goode because I like what I've heard.

Whereas I've twice listened to the first movement of Sonata No.1 in the Lucchesini set, because people here keep raving about that set, and I just went "yuck" and turned it off.

I think he is great in all the named sonatas (for my taste a bit too slow in the opening movement of Hammerklavier) and the final sonatas. His Op. 110 might be one of my favorite recordings in all piano music. For my tastes it is one of the most consistent cycles and ranks among my top 3 (may be possibly my favorite).

On the topic of Serkin this box set is among the best bargains in Beethoven (I can't comment on the mastering quality, I completed my Serkin collection with the big complete Sony box):



Round it out with the Sony unreleased set for the sublime Op. 110.

[Mandryka]

Other than the above mentioned I have a faint spot among others for Badura-Skoda, Lucchesini and Solomon.

Have you heard Lucchesini's Beethoven concert on a fortepiano, in Bonn in 2009? With op 106.

[Mandryka]

I think he is great in all the named sonatas (for my taste a bit too slow in the opening movement of Hammerklavier)

The Hammerklavier was his big break, because Luciano Berio heard it and said something approving about it. The first recording, different from the one in the complete set, is exquisitely beautiful and refined - I don't mean to suggest that these things are positive traits of the interpretation.

[Florestan]

With a few exceptions, I think the role of particular (or of listening to many dozens of different) interpretation/s is vastly overrated in "understanding" or "getting" pieces of music. (The exceptions mostly concern either very performance-dependent music like a lot of music before ca. 1700 or organ music with very different instruments and styles. And very excentric or odd interpretations.)

I also do not think it helpful to think of five rather different sonatas as one block.

Nothing wrong with listening to different recordings if one already has them available, but I would not expect revelations from the 13th one. The mere familiarity that sometimes will change into some kind of "understanding" can almost as well be gained by listening to the same recording many times.

So I would not give up. Either focus on the stuff you already like well enough or "systematically attack" pieces that seem thorny or so by listening to them closely or consulting listener's guides or the like.

Excellent post. I agree completely.

[prémont]

I wanted some guidance in attacking my large pile of partially-or-not-yet-heard CDs.  Make sense?

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Among the ones, you own, I would in the first hand concentrate upon Backhaus, Kempff and Arrau, - and temporarily avoid Gulda and Kuerti. For the late sonatas I still think, that Pollini and Serkin may be relevant. For the other sonatas you have so many different recordings to listen to, that I do not think, more acquisitions are relevant at the moment.

[prémont]

Have you heard Lucchesini's Beethoven concert on a fortepiano, in Bonn in 2009? With op 106.

No, where can it be had?

[Mandryka]

No, where can it be had?

I'll send it to you later.

I'm listening to the first recording right now, I can fully understand why he made Berio prick up his ears.

[Florestan]

If you're looking for a gateway into the late sonatas I suggest op.110, which personally I find one of the most approachable.

Indeedie. One of the most melodically appealing of them all (and there is stiff competition, actually).

a piece might not click with one performance and then succeed with another.

This, too.

[staxomega]

The Hammerklavier was his big break, because Luciano Berio heard it and said something approving about it. The first recording, different from the one in the complete set, is exquisitely beautiful and refined - I don't mean to suggest that these things are positive traits of the interpretation.

Ahh yes I actually do have this EMI CD (even signed it for me when I saw him at Columbia), I am not sure how I forgot this! I have not heard it in a long time, I'll revisit it soon. It was knowing this was a good disc and the positive comments about his complete cycle that caused me to check out his complete cycle.

A while back I posted about Igor Levit's final sonatas- I've relistened to these several more times now and I am really warming to them. Major highlights being his clarity in voices and the contrapuntal elements. I've always enjoyed his Diabellis, I'm glad I didn't give up on his recordings on the sonatas. I'm keen to hear what others think of this set.

[Madiel]

I think he is great in all the named sonatas (for my taste a bit too slow in the opening movement of Hammerklavier) and the final sonatas. His Op. 110 might be one of my favorite recordings in all piano music. For my tastes it is one of the most consistent cycles and ranks among my top 3 (may be possibly my favorite).

I mentioned 2 people, so I genuinely don't know which one is "he".