Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

Started by George, July 21, 2007, 07:27:17 PM

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Mandryka

#4540
Quote from: Hobby on February 25, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
I'd be happy if you went for op53 as the Gilels recording of 53, 57 and 81a has long been one of my all time favourite CDs and I could learn about alternatives perhaps.

This sonata's first movement really needs the percussive timbres of a proper Beethoven piano, so I suggest Paul Komen. But if you really insist on a modern instrument then Paul Jacobs. Pollini also rather good.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Holden

Quote from: George on February 25, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
My favorite Waldstein's:

1. Rudolf Serkin (mono) tied with Josef Hofmann (Casimir recital)
2. Annie Fischer tied with Emil Gilels
3. Horowitz
4. Schnabel
5. Hungerford

One of my favourite (if not top choice) LvB PS is Op 53.

My top choices are mainly played in a similar manner.

Rudolf Serkin '52
Dubravka Tomsic
Solomon
Bruce Hungerford

So George and I agree on two performers (not surprising as we seem to have similar tastes in certain areas).
Cheers

Holden

amw

for the Waldstein I would name:

- Martha Argerich (which I hope gets issued someday, if a complete recording can be found)

and secondarily:

- Paul Badura-Skoda [Astrée]
- Michaël Lévinas
- Paul Komen
- Bruce Hungerford

but it has been hard for me to find really memorable recordings of this piece; these are just the ones that have been played most often in my library. (Which also contains: Alexei Lubimov, Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo), Daniel-Ben Pienaar, Ragna Schirmer, Radu Lupu, András Schiff, Stephen Kovacevich, Annie Fischer (EMI), Rudolf Firkušný, György Cziffra, Maria Tipo, Takahiro Sonoda, Russell Sherman, Angela Hewitt, Steven Osborne, Stewart Goodyear, Edwin Fischer, Michael Korstick, Paavali Jumppanen, Friedrich Gulda (Orfeo), Artur Schnabel, Stephan Möller, Kazune Shimizu (Sony), Rudolf Serkin (unspecified date), Yusuke Kikuchi, and probably another 2-3 recordings yet uncatalogued. Some of these have not yet been listened to.)

My issue with recordings is generally that the first movement is taken too slowly—Allegro con brio in 4/4 demanded a tempo of at least 80 to the half note—and the rondo is taken too quickly—Allegretto moderato was for Beethoven a quite slow tempo of maybe about 69 to 84 to the quarter note. An ideal recording would therefore have a first movement (with repeat) of around nine and a half minutes, and a rondo of about eleven minutes. Additionally many pianists overuse the pedal in the first movement, where it should be almost entirely eschewed in favour of a dry and percussive piano sound, while not using it quite enough in the rondo, which is built around long pedals that blur together the harmonies and passing notes. Period instrument recordings are therefore usually preferable.

I don't really have the energy to write up mini-reviews of a bunch of Op. 53 performances but I could put together a rating system of some kind.

Mandryka

Ernst Gröschel (18 December 1918 in Nuremberg – 5 May 2000 in Zams, Tirol) was a German pianist. Gröschel studied with Emil von Sauer and others in Vienna. He is regarded as the first pianist who played Mozart and Beethoven completely on historical keyboard instruments. He was a member of the Bamberg Piano Quartet.[1] He left behind a large number of recordings both on vinyl and in the archives of the Bayerischer Rundfunk.[2][3][4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Gr%C3%B6schel


And here's his Beethoven!

https://soundcloud.com/user-985460328/sets/ernst-groschel-spielt-beethoven-fortepiano

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Cato

Quote from: Holden on February 25, 2021, 03:09:11 PM
One of my favourite (if not top choice) LvB PS is Op 53.

My top choices are mainly played in a similar manner.

Rudolf Serkin '52
Dubravka Tomsic
Solomon
Bruce Hungerford

So George and I agree on two performers (not surprising as we seem to have similar tastes in certain areas).

For your consideration..


From 1950, Wilhelm Backhaus:

https://www.youtube.com/v/eSWwn6fNaGI

YouTube offers a 1969 live performance, but it has a great amount of hiss in the background.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

mabuse

Quote from: Mandryka on May 04, 2021, 06:25:04 AM
Ernst Gröschel (18 December 1918 in Nuremberg – 5 May 2000 in Zams, Tirol) was a German pianist. Gröschel studied with Emil von Sauer and others in Vienna. He is regarded as the first pianist who played Mozart and Beethoven completely on historical keyboard instruments. He was a member of the Bamberg Piano Quartet.[1] He left behind a large number of recordings both on vinyl and in the archives of the Bayerischer Rundfunk.[2][3][4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Gr%C3%B6schel


And here's his Beethoven!

https://soundcloud.com/user-985460328/sets/ernst-groschel-spielt-beethoven-fortepiano

Nice find, Mandryka  :)


(Few more stuff by Ernst Gröschel on YT : https://music.youtube.com/browse/UC6YaieOkcRzbt0tkFMG6xqw )

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on May 04, 2021, 06:25:04 AM
Ernst Gröschel

And here's his Beethoven!

https://soundcloud.com/user-985460328/sets/ernst-groschel-spielt-beethoven-fortepiano

Thanks for sharing this. To me he has always been just a name, and I didn't know, that these recordings existed.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Mandryka

Quote from: mabuse on May 04, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Nice find, Mandryka  :)


(Few more stuff by Ernst Gröschel on YT : https://music.youtube.com/browse/UC6YaieOkcRzbt0tkFMG6xqw )

Yes I think Walter Zimmermann's sound-cloud page is full of treasures.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on May 04, 2021, 12:17:06 PM
Thanks for sharing this. To me he has always been just a name, and I didn't know, that these recordings existed.

I'm looking forward to exploring them -- let's post here with our responses.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#4549


This has a really interesting Waldstein - fast, intense, playful, nuanced. Without checking it reminds me of Paul Jacobs but Pierre Boyer has the benefit of a proper Beethoven piano, so it has colour and percussiveness. This is how op 106/i should be - but Boyer hasn't ventured there on record as far as I know. Highly recommended.

Pierre Boyer is turning out to be a special piano player for me - his Schumann is equally fresh and revealing.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

amw

#4550


Is anyone familiar with this?

Olga Pashchenko gets Op. 7, 22 and 111; Alexei Lubimov gets Op. 2/1, 10/1-3, 13, 27/2, 49/1, 53 and 109.

Brian

Wow, no, but that is interesting. Martynov is also a somewhat known quantity for his Liszt-transcribed symphony cycle, and I've...heard of Zuev?

As Todd might say, Pashchenko needs to quit teasing us and do all 32.

Todd

Quote from: Brian on June 25, 2021, 06:25:02 AMAs Todd might say, Pashchenko needs to quit teasing us and do all 32.


Yes.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



And another yes.  An unexpected cycle that I bought because it exists.

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Brian


DavidW

Todd sometime you'll have to post a picture of your massive wall of Beethoven PS recordings! :laugh:

Todd

Quote from: DavidW on September 06, 2021, 04:13:20 AM
Todd sometime you'll have to post a picture of your massive wall of Beethoven PS recordings! :laugh:


Not much to look at, I'm afraid.  It's a combination of:



and

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd




Another new cycle starts.  Will it finish?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd




Davide Cabassi is up to the fourth volume in his on-going cycle.  His Schumann and Soler discs don't make me want to buy his LvB as they come out, but if he ever finishes, I will have to buy.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya