Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[NorthNYMark]

I have never even heard of Sherman and Pienaar... these are eccentric choices and the Lucchesini is not well known or well distributed either. The list might be based on a lot of listening but it is certainly not a consensus. The most famous or  most frequently discussed/recommended Beethoven sonata cycles (these are not my recommendations but what one will find usually mentioned) are probably

Schnabel
Backhaus (any)
Kempff (any, probably slight edge to the mono)
Arrau (Philips 1960s)
Gulda (amadeo 1967)
Brendel (any, probably the 1970s is the best known)
(maybe) Annie Fischer (published late/posthumously and more of an insider rec)

Then probably the incomplete one by Gilels and whatever Serkin and Richter recorded of the sonatas

If I recall correctly, these recommendations are based on the request for sets recorded during the last 15 years. From that perspective, they may not strike you as quite so eccentric.[EDIT--whoops! I got this thread confused with another where someone was asking for recommendations for sets from this millennium].

[Jo498]

The list quoted from Todd in #3555 are "all time favorites". And Sherman and Pienaar as well as Lucchesini and Heidsieck are rather excentric in such a list. Only Pienaar is recent, Sherman's were recorded in the 1990s (like the last Brendel or Kovacevich) and Lucchesini appeared around 2000.
Which is no problem at all, I just mentioned this to put it in perspective because someone wrote this list was "almost consensus". There is no consensus about such things and there are highly recommended recordings further down the list; e.g. Schnabel, Arrau, Brendel, all of which are at least as "standard recommendations" as Backhaus or Kempff.

If one asks for recent recordings I never know if one has already heard most of the old stuff or thinks mainly about sound quality.

[NorthNYMark]

The list quoted from Todd in #3555 are "all time favorites". And Sherman and Pienaar as well as Lucchesini and Heidsieck are rather excentric in such a list. Only Pienaar is recent, Sherman's were recorded in the 1990s (like the last Brendel or Kovacevich) and Lucchesini appeared around 2000.
Which is no problem at all, I just mentioned this to put it in perspective because someone wrote this list was "almost consensus". There is no consensus about such things and there are highly recommended recordings further down the list; e.g. Schnabel, Arrau, Brendel, all of which are at least as "standard recommendations" as Backhaus or Kempff.

If one asks for recent recordings I never know if one has already heard most of the old stuff or thinks mainly about sound quality.

Sorry, you are right--I added a line to my previous post to acknowledge that I got this discussion confused with one that was going on concurrently in a different thread.

[aquablob]

We have an embarrassment of riches in this repertory, don't we? I've heard 25-30 complete or nearly complete sets, plus various recordings by maybe another dozen pianists, and I really like pretty much all of it. It's hard to go wrong!

I suppose if I had to pick 5 complete sets, I might go with Arrau I, Brendel II, Kempff I, Gulda II, and Schiff.

If Solomon, Richter, Gilels, or Hungerford had recorded complete cycles, they'd probably be in contention.

Hey, has Angela Hewitt finished recording her cycle? I haven't heard any of her Beethoven yet, but I've always found her to be an interesting musician.

[aukhawk]

If one asks for recent recordings I never know if one has already heard most of the old stuff or thinks mainly about sound quality.

Since we are in the 'Great Recordings' sub-board it seems quite reasonable if sound quality is given high priority.  Although I grew up with recordings by Backhaus and Kempff I would nowadays rather listen to Takacs' Bösendorfer or Hewitt's Fazioli.  I might make an exception for Gould though.

[Martin Lind]

I like Arthur Schnabels complete set. Of course it has awfull sound, but is the pioneering recording, the very first complete recording. I don't like the Gulda very much which is very sober, but I like the first set of Brendel when Brendel was very young, a very enjoyable set.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I like the first set of Brendel when Brendel was very young, a very enjoyable set.

I agree, the Phillips set is pretty darn awful, really unimaginative and perfunctory in my opinion.

[Old Listener]

I agree, the Phillips set is pretty darn awful, really unimaginative and perfunctory in my opinion.

Brendel recorded two complete sets for Philips.  Which one are you referring to?

I have the later (digitally recorded) set and find it to be very worthwhile.

[Marc]

Just got the Heidsieck EMI integral (yes!), and I'm listening to the E flat opus 7 right now. The first movement immediately got me on the edge of my seat. Very expressive!
2nd movement is very convincing, too, and the same goes for 3 & 4. Everything sounds imaginative and inspired, I must say. The finale really made me smile a lot. And the sound is crystal clear.
It's too soon to call, but I guess I'm gonna be happy with this one...

[prémont]

Just got the Heidsieck EMI integral ...It's too soon to call, but I guess I'm gonna be happy with this one...

Heidsieck's Beethoven has always been among my favorites for this music.

[Todd]

Some museum-grade Beethoven from Steven Osborne.  As with pretty much every other disc I've heard from Mr Osborne, this one seems to have every note played at just the right volume and tempo, and in perfect relation to every other note.  While that ends up robbing the playing of some spontaneity, the disc is nonetheless excellent.

It reaches its apex of excellence in Op 106, which opens the disc.  Osborne's is very much of the fleet, energetic variety.  The opening movement is a brisk 9'41", and Osborne delivers.  And he keeps it swift throughout, with a taut, tense seventeen minute Adagio.  Both Op 101 and Op 90 also remain taut and quick, and Osborne plays the opener to Op 90 in intense fashion, and creates a sort of late LvB-lite sound for Op 101.  If it lacks ultimate heft or depth, it makes up for it with a perfectly sculpted sound and feel.

I have only one beef with the disc: sound.  Sonics are great overall.  Maybe too great.  There is piano mechanism noise to be heard throughout.  It sounds like the damper mechanisms were not as silent as they could be, and are audible throughout.  This is more of a problem with dome tweeters than ribbon tweeters, and it is far less noticeable through headphones.  The microphones picked up too much, it seems.

[Todd]

The last volume of Jean-Efflam's Bavouzet is stylistically like the first two volumes.  It is very French.  It may be the Frenchest cycle yet, Frencher even than Yves Nat or Georges Pludermacher.  By French I mean that the playing is generally light, generally swift, and more about surface playing than great depth.  There's comparatively little in the way of grand gesture or idiosyncratic waywardness.  This approach paid dividends in the first volume, less in the second, and less yet here.

The set covers sonatas from Op 54 to the end, and starting with Op 54, there's a lack of intensity and bite where there often is much more.  The opening movements of both Op 54 and 90 are a bit restrained.  Op 57 can best be described as athletic.  (The great Robert Casadesus offers a French Appassionata more down my alley.)  The opener of 106 is small in scale.  The first movement of 111 lacks bite, though it is peppy.  Op 81a is emotionally cool, which is not necessarily a problem, but it just doesn't pop.  The biggest problem comes in the late sonatas.  As already mentioned, 106 is small of scale in the fast movements, and doesn't delve much below the surface in the slow movement.  Opp 109 and 110, while nicely played and brisk, never establish a late LvB soundworld, and they sound more middle period.  The opening and Arietta of 111 are both good for their style, but as the second movement progresses, one hears uncommonly mechanical "little stars" and clean but kind of dull chains of trills.  Somehow, even the acciaccatura in Op 79 seems a bit mechanical and humorless. 

Sound is excellent, if a bit small in scale.

The cycle starts off strong, but doesn't end well.  Probably fourth tier overall for me.

[aukhawk]

Opp 109 and 110, while nicely played and brisk, never establish a late LvB soundworld, and they sound more middle period.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look out for this! 

[Todd]

Another cycle from the past resurrected.

[Mandryka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErVqp7j3I9Y#t=5m44s

I love this movement sooooooooooo much [the variations in op 109.]

Does anyone know the score well enough to say whether Backhaus in this clip, or indeed anyone else, is following Beethoven's stated or implied tempos in the variations? The reason I ask is that someone said to me that the only recording he knows which does so is Afanassiev's Moscow recital. Is that right?

Recall that a similar issue occurs for the variations in op 111/ii

[Jo498]

Unlike op.111 in op.109 almost every variation has a new tempo (but mostly vague words, not Metronome markings or clear relations:

Thema: Gesangvoll, mit innigster Empfindung (Andante molto cantabile ed espressivo)*
I: molto espressivo (usually understood as slightly slower than the theme)
II: Leggieramente (a fair bit faster)
III: Allegro vivace 2/4 (very fast)
IV: Etwas langsamer als das Thema [slightly slower than the theme] 9/8
than the numbering stops, the fugato (Var. V) has Allegro ma non troppo 2/2, than from bar 160 "Tempo I del tema" and of course again 3/4 time.

So there would be a lot of "implying" to do to get unique tempo relationships... I think many are not quite returning to Tempo I at the end because the "apotheosis" is more effective starting at a slower tempo. I think I prefer also IV rather slow.

*this is from the Peters score, I do not know if Beethoven himself also provided the italian titles. I think I read in some book on Beethoven that "(mit) innigste(r) Empfindung" (elsewhere translated as "con intimissimo sentimento") was very different from "molto espressivo", "innig" literally meaning sth. like "inward", almost the opposite of "espressivo" (literally translated).
Although it was at Beethoven's time "innig" used to express emotional relationships (innige Liebe). It is an old-fashioned, almost obsolete word nowadays, probably an inward but intense feeling or sth. like that is closest to the 19th century meaning.

[Madiel]

Yes, op.109 does not have the kinds of tempo issues that op.111 has.

[Amore di Viola]

I have never even heard of Sherman and Pienaar... these are eccentric choices and the Lucchesini is not well known or well distributed either. The list might be based on a lot of listening but it is certainly not a consensus. The most famous or  most frequently discussed/recommended Beethoven sonata cycles (these are not my recommendations but what one will find usually mentioned) are probably

Schnabel
Backhaus (any)
Kempff (any, probably slight edge to the mono)
Arrau (Philips 1960s)
Gulda (amadeo 1967)
Brendel (any, probably the 1970s is the best known)
(maybe) Annie Fischer (published late/posthumously and more of an insider rec)

Then probably the incomplete one by Gilels and whatever Serkin and Richter recorded of the sonatas

Can I ask what you mean, when you describe Annie Fischer's cycle as an 'insider rec'? As I understand it, they were a kind of work-in-progress for her, recorded over many years but not published in her lifetime. Is that what you are referring to?
I am halfway through her cycle and have now bought Schiff for comparison, I really enjoy his 'lectures' on Youtube.

[Jo498]

Yes, I was partly referring to the posthumous publication but mainly that stuff like Schnabel, Backhaus, Gulda, Brendel, Arrau etc. has been around for decades, was already very popular and highly recommended in the LP era (if I look into my German LP guide from 1979 the five just mentioned are the recs for complete cycles), so Annie Fischer's is kind of late for establishing itself as a standard recommendation.

[NJ Joe]

I purchased Annie Fischer's cycle, based on recommendations in this thread, about 2 years ago.  I listened through once, and shelved it and went back to Gulda.  I'm now making my way through it a second time and it's knocking my socks off.