Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

Started by George, July 21, 2007, 07:27:17 PM

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Mandryka


Quote from: amw on February 20, 2019, 01:22:23 AM
I listened to his 109 and it didn't make a strong impression on me one way or the other.

I think I agree with this.

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on February 20, 2019, 10:18:16 AM
Quite wonderful, I think. The little things in it. I've yet to deep-dive, and it ain't Pollini... but I think this is special - in the Variation movement of 111 esp.

I think I agree with this.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

Quote from: San Antone on February 19, 2019, 12:30:25 PM
I just listened to this no. 31 -



I usually think of Tharaud for French post-Romantic piano works, i.e. Debussy, Ravel; or Baroque music, and wanted to hear how he did Beethoven.  I am lousy with comparing recordings, it sounded okay to me, but I'm curious what others may think who are more familiar with the work than I.

There are so, so, so many recordings of this music. I'm surprised there is more money to be made recording it again, rather than recording something that is not well represented in the catalog.

I'm wondering now how the piece comes across on a fortepiano. I should dig up my Brautigam disc and give it a spin. I've listened to the set through once and don't specifically remember No 31, although I have an overall very positive impression.

Brian

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 20, 2019, 11:22:04 AM
I'm wondering now how the piece comes across on a fortepiano. I should dig up my Brautigam disc and give it a spin. I've listened to the set through once and don't specifically remember No 31, although I have an overall very positive impression.
Oh goodness, wait until you hear the Penelope Crawford album. One of my "desert island discs" across all classical music. She is so little-known but such a special artist. Here's Todd's review, and once I got to interview her.

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

Quote from: Brian on February 20, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Oh goodness, wait until you hear the Penelope Crawford album. One of my "desert island discs" across all classical music. She is so little-known but such a special artist. Here's Todd's review, and once I got to interview her.

Does anyone sell it as a lossless download? Presto has some of there other recordings, but not that one, apparently.

Mandryka

Quote from: Brian on February 20, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Oh goodness, wait until you hear the Penelope Crawford album. One of my "desert island discs" across all classical music. She is so little-known but such a special artist. Here's Todd's review, and once I got to interview her.

What do you think of Tom Beghin's Hearing Machine recording? 
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

amw

#4065
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 20, 2019, 01:22:43 PM
Does anyone sell it as a lossless download? Presto has some of there other recordings, but not that one, apparently.
Qobuz has it but not sure if it's accessible in the States. The Presto download is located here but may be subject to similar geographic restrictions, I'm not sure.

I'm not a fan of the Beghin recording personally—for fortepianos I usually seem to end up listening to Alexei Lubimov or Paul Badura-Skoda.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Brian on February 20, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Oh goodness, wait until you hear the Penelope Crawford album. One of my "desert island discs" across all classical music. She is so little-known but such a special artist. Here's Todd's review, and once I got to interview her.
I didn't like that one. Couldn't get past the sound of the instrument and her tendency to start and stop all the time (or another way of describing it is through small pauses or hiccups) making things too abrupt in places and losing flow.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Mandryka

Quote from: amw on February 20, 2019, 11:33:02 PM
Qobuz has it but not sure if it's accessible in the States. The Presto download is located here but may be subject to similar geographic restrictions, I'm not sure.

I'm not a fan of the Beghin recording personally—for fortepianos I usually seem to end up listening to Alexei Lubimov or Paul Badura-Skoda.

Someone, a "real" pianist, once said to me that the thing to hear is op 111 on a christofori piano, the trills, the trills. I've never heard it.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 21, 2019, 03:33:13 AM
I didn't like that one. Couldn't get past the sound of the instrument and her tendency to start and stop all the time (or another way of describing it is through small pauses or hiccups) making things too abrupt in places and losing flow.

I feel the opposite, I wasn't impressed because she doesn't hiccup enough!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Brian

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 21, 2019, 03:33:13 AM
I didn't like that one. Couldn't get past the sound of the instrument and her tendency to start and stop all the time (or another way of describing it is through small pauses or hiccups) making things too abrupt in places and losing flow.
Huh! I'm usually very sensitive to stop-and-start and small pauses - I hate it - but never noticed it with her.

amw

Quote from: Mandryka on February 21, 2019, 05:51:40 AM
Someone, a "real" pianist, once said to me that the thing to hear is op 111 on a christofori piano, the trills, the trills. I've never heard it.
Me neither—and nor did Beethoven, since he never owned or played a Cristofori.

(I mean he also never owned a Steinway, not that that stops anyone though.)

staxomega

I listened to Stewart Goodyear's set "The Middle Sonatas", am I crazy to think he reminds me of Rudolf Serkin in many places? He has that "angularity" to his playing where it sounds like he is reaching or climbing and he can change directions on a dime, this is exciting playing. His liner notes are excellent as well, and written with a youthful affectation for the scores (his note on wondering how Op. 15 would fit in Disney's Fantasia makes complete sense to me). Where I am quite disappointed with his set and what struck it off my list of keeper sets is he plays the slow movements too briskly, like in the Adagio of Op. 31/1 or Minuetto of 31/3 where I would find someone like Lucchesini beyond human. This turns many of the sonatas into a 1 dimensional affair, almost like he has to build himself as some concert virtuoso. I would be interested if he revisits the cycle later in his career.

The other cycle I have been sampling is Peter Takacs, this I have been quite impressed by, I'll write some more later.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Brian on February 21, 2019, 06:11:25 AM
Huh! I'm usually very sensitive to stop-and-start and small pauses - I hate it - but never noticed it with her.
I feel it more strongly, for example, in the beginning of Op. 109.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

One person can't bear the performance because of the starts and stops, another found it boring because there were no starts and stops, one person says I must hear it before I die, another characterizes it as a turd. Seems to support my dictum, the main content of any review of a recordings consists of the fact that the recording exists.

Overall, I feel that I want to hear this recording.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 21, 2019, 07:29:10 AM
One person can't bear the performance because of the starts and stops, another found it boring because there were no starts and stops, one person says I must hear it before I die, another characterizes it as a turd. Seems to support my dictum, the main content of any review of a recordings consists of the fact that the recording exists.

Overall, I feel that I want to hear this recording.
This is why good or bad is irrelevant, and the reason given the more important aspect. There are time when people love something to bits, but when I see why they loved it, I know to stay clear.

In the case of this recording, she has the technique, so as long as the instrument used doesn't put you off, I say go for it.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

Quote from: Mandryka on February 21, 2019, 05:51:40 AM
Someone, a "real" pianist, once said to me that the thing to hear is op 111 on a christofori piano, the trills, the trills. I've never heard it.

For me only Pollini pulled of the trills convincingly.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 21, 2019, 08:33:27 AM
This is why good or bad is irrelevant, and the reason given the more important aspect. There are time when people love something to bits, but when I see why they loved it, I know to stay clear.

In this case even the reason given was contradictory!

Mandryka

#4076
My feeling is (prove me wrong please) that Crawford plays the old piano like a modern instrument, it's a middle of the road modern piano conservatory performance on a fortepiano, that's probably why some people like it, they're in a familiar space with the slight twist of old piano tones. 

There isn't a sense of a creative interaction between music, instrument and performer   -- contrast Lubimov or Beghin.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 21, 2019, 07:08:13 AM
I feel it more strongly, for example, in the beginning of Op. 109.

Yes, but I think you're very sensitive about this.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

#4077
Quote from: Mandryka on February 21, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
There isn't a sense of the instrument inspiring a creative interaction between music, instrument and performer  -- contrast Lubimov or Beghin.

Precisely my sentiments too.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Ghost of Baron Scarpia


(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Brian on February 20, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Oh goodness, wait until you hear the Penelope Crawford album. One of my "desert island discs" across all classical music. She is so little-known but such a special artist. Here's Todd's review, and once I got to interview her.

I would agree with Brian. This is a terrific version of 109-110-111, and she has another disc with several of the other lates. One of my favorite Beethoven piano CDs.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."