Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[pianoforever]

Todd, I haven't seen Solomon Cutner in your lists. What's your perspective?

[Todd]

Todd, I haven't seen Solomon Cutner in your lists. What's your perspective?

It has been many years since I last listened to any of his recordings, and then only a limited number of them.  I was not a fan at the time.  I'd have to revisit anew to see if that has changed.

[prémont]

It has been many years since I last listened to any of his recordings, and then only a limited number of them.  I was not a fan at the time.  I'd have to revisit anew to see if that has changed.

I would be interested to read your comments to Solomon's LvB sonatas.

[Holden]

I would be interested to read your comments to Solomon's LvB sonatas.

My first Waldstein recording was the Solomon and I still rate it highly. The first movement has that necessary forward impetus and the juxtaposition with the Introduzione/Adagio is very well done to create a contrast in both dynamic s and expression. The Rondo is taken at the correct speed of Allegretto. Solomon's sparkling and superbly articulated fingerwork (especially in I) is what is need to bring out the inner and outer voices.

[pianoforever]

I was not a fan at the time.  I'd have to revisit anew to see if that has changed.

I'd be curious to get your point of view. I'm new joiner, but from the little I've seen so far, I find myself largely sharing your taste. I used to rather like him..though re-listening to him recently I found him a tad too polite

[George]

Todd, I haven't seen Solomon Cutner in your lists. What's your perspective?

I'm not Todd, but I think he is excellent on a number of sonatas:

Op. 2/3, Op. 27/1, Op. 27/2, Op. 54 and Op. 106

I own the Testament CDs.

[Holden]

To me, Solomon nails Op 27/2, especially the first movement. He takes it slower than most and does not treat it like the soubriquet attached to it - Moonlight. There is nothing about the moon glinting warmly on Lake Lucerne in this composition. This is a dark and brooding movement with much of the 'melody/tune' coming out in the left hand. The key of C# minor is one of the clues.

In many pianists performances, the speed of the first movement seems almost to be the same as the second movement Allegretto because many play it almost at Allegretto speed. In the three Solomon performances there is a clear tempo contrast (getting faster) which makes perfect sense and it leads perfectly on to the Presto agitato.

..and yes, Solomon recorded the Moonlight twice. First in 1945. There were a number of takes between June 10 and August 10. The second time was August 21st 1952. This is the version we usually hear. I thought I had a copy of the 1945 recording but I don't. I've certainly heard it but can't remember where I would access it. Finally there is a radio broadcast from Berlin and it appears to be in stereo and was available from APR. This is the fastest of Movement I but not by much.

Found the 1945 on You Tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK__kS2R3-w

[staxomega]

To me, Solomon nails Op 27/2, especially the first movement. He takes it slower than most and does not treat it like the soubriquet attached to it - Moonlight. There is nothing about the moon glinting warmly on Lake Lucerne in this composition. This is a dark and brooding movement with much of the 'melody/tune' coming out in the left hand. The key of C# minor is one of the clues.

Copying what Edwin Fischer has written in his Beethoven Piano Sonatas book, he seems to be in agreement with you.

Scarcely any sonata has had so much written about it as op. 27 no. 2 though it only lasts sixteen minutes. In Beethoven's own time it was called Laube (Arbour) sonata because it was thought to have been composed in an arbour. The nickname Moonlight Sonata came from the poet Rellstab who was inspired to call it that by a moonlit night on the Lake of Lucerne. [...] From various facts that come to my knowledge I have conceived a different theory of the origin of the work which I should like to mention here without claiming any historical authenticity for it.

There is in Vienna a manuscript of Beethoven's which contains a few lines from Mozart's Don Giovanni in Beethoven's undoubted hand: the passage after Don Giovanni has killed the Commendatore. Underneath Beethoven has transposed the passage into C sharp minor, and the absolute similarity of this with the first movement of op. 27 no. 2 is quite ummistakable. In particular the postlude is note for note as in Mozart.

At the time one of Beethoven's aristocratic friends died and was laid out in state in his palace. One night Beethoven is said to have improvised as he sat by the corpse of his friend; is it so unlikely that Beethoven was reminded of the similar scene in Don Giovanni and that this was the reason for the striking similarity which we have mentioned? In any case, there is no romantic moonlight in this movement: it is rather a solemn dirge.

[Todd]

A May release.  Unless Ms Chemin recorded everything anew, this looks to be the second longest gestating cycle after Pollini's.

[Gurn Blanston]

A May release.  Unless Ms Chemin recorded everything anew, this looks to be the second longest gestating cycle after Pollini's.

Are you already familiar with this pianist?  i.e. looking forward to this?  I've never heard of her, TBH.   

😎🤠

[Todd]

Are you already familiar with this pianist?  i.e. looking forward to this?  I've never heard of her, TBH.

I only know who she is because she had several volumes of a purported complete cycle available for years - since I started collecting cycles at the start of the century.  Never heard any of her playing.  I will soon enough.

[Gurn Blanston]

I only know who she is because she had several volumes of a purported complete cycle available for years - since I started collecting cycles at the start of the century.  Never heard any of her playing.  I will soon enough.

Ah. Intrepid.

[SonicMan46]

I only know who she is because she had several volumes of a purported complete cycle available for years - since I started collecting cycles at the start of the century.  Never heard any of her playing.  I will soon enough.

Ah. Intrepid.

Guys - my interest is piqued just in anticipation of Todd's comments -    She has a short but impressive bio HERE; also listed below on Amazon for release in early May at the pre-order price shown - no info except that it contains 10 discs - will hold my breath!    Dave

[Holden]

There is a 2000 recording by her on Youtube of op 57.

[staxomega]

I saw this mentioned in the new releases thread, it's now up on Qobuz. With the caveat that I might not have been in the mood, too tired, etc I was not too taken by op. 49/1 or the Pastoral Sonata, I have not heard op. 109 or 111 (I might have that 111 on another BBC disc). Surprising to me is that op. 109 is from 1987, maybe one of the latest recordings of hers?

[Todd]

Updated with Muriel Chemin's cycle added.


Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Second Tier - Cycles 11-21 (in alphabetical order)
Artur Schnabel
Fazil Say
Francois Frederic Guy
Irina Mejoueva (Bijin)
Kazune Shimizu (Sony)
Minsoo Sohn
Paul Badura-Skoda (JVC/Astree)
Takahiro Sonoda (Evica)
Wilhelm Backhaus (stereo)
Yu Kosuge
Yusuke Kikuchi


Second Tier - Remainder (in alphabetical order)
Bernard Roberts
Claude Frank
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 2005)
Eduardo del Pueyo
Friedrich Gulda (Orfeo)
Maurizio Pollini
Michael Levinas
Peter Takacs
Robert Silverman
Rudolf Buchbinder (Unitel)
Seymour Lipkin
Takahiro Sonoda (Denon)
Younwha Lee

[Bruce Hungerford; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Third Tier (in alphabetical order)
Aquiles Delle Vigne
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Mirare)
Akiyoshi Sako
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1970s)
Alfred Brendel (Vox)
Alfredo Perl
Andras Schiff
Boris Giltburg
Claudio Arrau (1960s)
Claudio Arrau (1980s)
Craig Sheppard
Daniel Barenboim (DG)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 1960s)
David Allen Wehr
Dieter Zechlin
Friedrich Gulda (Decca)
Garrick Ohlsson
Gerard Willems
Gerhard Oppitz
Ian Hobson
Ichiro Nodaira
Igor Levit
Irina Mejoueva
Jingge Yan
John O'Conor
Jonathan Biss
Konstantin Scherbakov
Kun-Woo Paik
Louie Lortie
Malcolm Bilson, et al (Beghin is second tier)
Malcolm Binns
Michael Houstoun (Morrison Trust)
Michael Houstoun (Rattle)
Michael Korstick
Muriel Chemin
Paul Badura-Skoda (Gramola)
Pavaali Jumppanen
Peter Rösel
Robert Silverman (AudioHigh)
Rudolf Buchbinder (Teldec)
Sequeira Costa
Stephen Kovacevich
Stewart Goodyear
Wilhelm Kempff (1961, King International)
Yaeko Yamane
Yves Nat


Fourth Tier (in alphabetical order)
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Forlane)
Aldo Ciccolini
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1990s)
Andre De Groote
Angela Hewitt
Anton Kuerti
Christian Leotta
Daniel Barenboim (DG, 2020)
Dino Ciani
Georges Pludermacher
Idil Biret
Ikuyo Nakamichi
Jean Bernard Pommier
Jean Muller
Jean-Efflam Bavouzet
Jeno Jando
John Kane
John Lill
Konstantin Lifschitz
Llŷr Williams
Mari Kodama
Maria Grinburg
Martin Rasch
Martino Tirimo   
Melodie Zhao
Paul Lewis
Richard Goode
Robert Benz
Robert Taub
Ronald Brautigam
Rudolf Buchbinder (RCA)
Sebastian Forster
Steven Herbert Smith
Steven Masi
Timothy Ehlen
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Walter Gieseking (Tahra)
Yukio Yokoyama


Bottom Tier (in sorta particular order)
HJ Lim
Rita Bouboulidi
Tatiana Nikolayeva
Anne Oland


Eighth Circle of Hell
[Glenn Gould; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]

[George]

Hi Jens,

I have been revisiting a few of my Beethoven sets that I had yet to evaluate and compare with some of my other sets and since this is partially due to your post, I wanted to reply here. As you know, I also have the mono and stereo Backhaus sets, but have never compared them. Until now. I got started last night and found that the first sonata performance in the stereo was just as good as the mono and since the sound is so much better on the stereo, it wins! So far then, stereo set 1, mono set 0.

However, looking at the booklets, it is clear that in the mono set the slow movements are less rushed in almost every case and since I found a number of the slow movements in the stereo to be too fast, I think this bodes well for the mono.   

With Backhaus, especially, but then again also Kempff, it's important to note that with the Stereo cycle you get OLD Backhaus, the artist... and with the Mono cycle you get the very nearly as OLD Backhaus, the artist. The early stuff of his career is fascinating, to the extent it survives, and the sound is horribly restrained so as to barely make it worthwhile listening to.

I get what you are saying here and to an extent I agree. However, I think it is important to note a few things. First, I would say that the mono set, is certainly OLD Backhaus (he was ages 66-70 while recording it), I would say that the stereo set, is OLDER Backhaus (he was ages 74-85 while recording it.) And Backhaus died at 85.

Also: If you don't like Backhaus Stereo, I would be quite surprised if you found Backhaus Mono a grand improvement.

Absolutely!

(I do see a point for the Kempff mono cycle being appreciated more than the stereo-remake,

Agreed again! I think the mono Kempff is a clear and consistent improvement over the stereo set. I think Kempff excels in 18 of the 32 in the mono and only 4 of the 32 in the stereo. And thankfully, the mono DG sound for Kempff is a lot better than the mono Decca sound for Backhaus.   

[prémont]

I think Kempff excels in .... only 4 of the 32 in the stereo.

Which four do you think of, if I may ask?

[George]

Which four do you think of, if I may ask?

Hi premont!

Stereo DG - Op. 28, 101, 110, 111.

[Todd]

Kempff seems to have a special affinity for Op 28, at least for me.  All four recorded versions are top notch.