Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Todd]

It is worth noting that Tomsic recorded for Koch Schwann, which is currently a sublabel of Deutsche Grammophon.  DG just released a fourth batch of twelve Koch Schwann recordings in digital format earlier this month, so they are currently working with the catalog.  A direct inquiry with the company whether Tomsic recorded a complete cycle might yield a definitive answer. 

[AnotherSpin]

As far as I am aware, Tomsic did not record a complete cycle.  Apple streams Tomsic in a complete set with other pianists as well (below) on the "Classical Masters" label.  I suspect Amazon sells and streams the same thing, just packaged differently.  It could be a different mix, though.

https://music.apple.com/us/album/the-complete-piano-sonatas-of-ludwig-van-beethoven/732877012

+1

[prémont]

It is worth noting that Tomsic recorded for Koch Schwann, which is currently a sublabel of Deutsche Grammophon.  DG just released a fourth batch of twelve Koch Schwann recordings in digital format earlier this month, so they are currently working with the catalog.  A direct inquiry with the company whether Tomsic recorded a complete cycle might yield a definitive answer. 

Thanks. I tend to think that if she has recorded a full cycle it was for a small East European label and not for Koch. 

[Holden]

From my perspective it's highly unlikely that she has recorded a complete given that she has been a 'house' pianist for a number of obscure labels and they're not the type to do complete cycles. Tomsic is now 84 years old and is still teaching (I believe) in her native slovenia. Check out her Scarlatti.

[Madiel]

@Todd, Amazon offers a complete Beethoven set for download in mp3 format, all attributed to Dubravka Tomsic. If this were true, it would be sensational, which is why I'm skeptical. Given your extensive experience with Beethoven sonata collections, can you determine the actual performers?

https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Sonata-Flat-Op-Hammerklavier/dp/B002ZFMQLO

Technically it actually only lists Tomsic on one track. And then proceeds to list nobody at all on all the other tracks.

The same thing is on YouTube by the way.

[prémont]

Technically it actually only lists Tomsic on one track. And then proceeds to list nobody at all on all the other tracks.

This is the heading, hinting at Tomsic for all the tracks:

Beethoven - Piano Classics
Dubravka Tomsic

102 SONGS • 10 HOURS AND 56 MINUTES • MAY 01 2009

[Madiel]

This is the heading, hinting at Tomsic for all the tracks:

Beethoven - Piano Classics
Dubravka Tomsic

102 SONGS • 10 HOURS AND 56 MINUTES • MAY 01 2009

Yes I know, but what struck me is that none of the individual tracks after the first one have any information. It turns out that this is partially Amazon's fault - their interface is highly clumsy and basically it's suggesting that Beethoven guest stars on the first track along with Tomsic, whereas it's just Tomsic after that. But in addition to that, we are probably dealing with the kind of release where someone entered the absolute minimum metadata they could get away with.

[prémont]

Yes I know, but what struck me is that none of the individual tracks after the first one have any information. It turns out that this is partially Amazon's fault - their interface is highly clumsy and basically it's suggesting that Beethoven guest stars on the first track along with Tomsic, whereas it's just Tomsic after that. But in addition to that, we are probably dealing with the kind of release where someone entered the absolute minimum metadata they could get away with.

You could be correct. I searched YouTube and discovered that multiple sonatas are attributed to Tomsic. However, it's possible they all stem from this flawed Piano Classics release.

[Madiel]

It turns out that the first 3 sonatas line up perfectly with a single album, where Dubravka Tomsic is listed as performing the Moonlight and Pathetique, followed by Dieter Goldmann playing the Appassionata.

So that is almost certainly the origin. Someone put a bunch of albums together, grabbed the name of the pianist on the first one, and, being a lazy so-and-so who probably barely understood classical music, went no further.

EDIT: In fact over the years there seem to be at least THREE different albums of the Moonlight/Pathetique/Appassionata combination where the first two sonatas are Tomsic, and the Appassionata is someone else's. All of them have the sort of cheap reissue look about them.

[prémont]

It turns out that the first 3 sonatas line up perfectly with a single album, where Dubravka Tomsic is listed as performing the Moonlight and Pathetique, followed by Dieter Goldmann playing the Appassionata.

So that is almost certainly the origin. Someone put a bunch of albums together, grabbed the name of the pianist on the first one, and, being a lazy so-and-so who probably barely understood classical music, went no further.

EDIT: In fact over the years there seem to be at least THREE different albums of the Moonlight/Pathetique/Appassionata combination where the first two sonatas are Tomsic, and the Appassionata is someone else's. All of them have the sort of cheap reissue look about them.

Dieter Goldmann is a fictitious name. I own one of these budget releases where all three sonatas are attributed to Tomsic. However, I question whether it is her playing the Appassionata Sonata. Indeed, she recorded the Appassionata Sonata for the Koch label, but that is a separate recording. Interestingly, the budget Appassionata is much superior to hers.

[Madiel]

Dieter Goldmann is a fictitious name. I own one of these budget releases where all three sonatas are attributed to Tomsic. However, I question whether it is her playing the Appassionata Sonata. Indeed, she recorded the Appassionata Sonata for the Koch label, but that is a separate recording. Interestingly, the budget Appassionata is much superior to hers.

The other names I saw attached were Sylvia Capova and Angela Giulini. The latter is fictitious. Capova might be real?

Creating fictional pianists is bizarre. Wasn't Joyce Hatto enough?

[prémont]

The other names I saw attached were Sylvia Capova and Angela Giulini. The latter is fictitious. Capova might be real?

Creating fictional pianists is bizarre. Wasn't Joyce Hatto enough?

Yes, Sylvia Capova is real - and a pianist of distinction.

Angela Giulini has been declared a fictitious character by Discogs. Nevertheless, there is purportedly a picture of her on the internet. It's not surprising that some people make money by inventing fictional pianists in a world where we are constantly confronted with deceit.

[Brian]

These artists all came from the world of the Pilz label and other German budget labels of the era, right? I think there's documentation (including on this forum) of rampant fake name usage on those labels, like the fake conductor Alfred Scholz - whose fictional biography said he was a Holocaust survivor! Iirc the story with all the orchestral recordings was that they hired a pickup band of pros from across Bavaria on their days off and invented several fake orchestras for them to "be," like the London Festival Orchestra. And the same largely took place with pianists, although Dubravka Tomsic, Sylvia Capova, and Peter Schmalfuss were real.

My dad bought a lot of these Pilz records and I grew up with the Schmalfuss "Songs without Words" and the fake Scholz Bach Brandenburgs.

[DavidW]

These artists all came from the world of the Pilz label and other German budget labels of the era, right?

Yes Pilz and Point Classics were the big offenders.  Funny enough Lydia and Vox Box were also great bargain brands, but they were far more honest!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Yes Pilz and Point Classics were the big offenders.  Funny enough Lydia and Vox Box were also great bargain brands, but they were far more honest!

Haven't heard of Lydia before now.  Where were they based out of?

Vox had some lovely recordings. 

PD

[prémont]

..the fake Scholz Bach Brandenburgs.

These recordings have been issued under a plethora of pseudonyms. The most credible release I have encountered was indicated to be performed by the Hamburg Symphonisches Orchester, conducted by Gabor Ötvös - both are well-established and reputable names. However, the soloists were not credited.

[DavidW]

Haven't heard of Lydia before now.  Where were they based out of?

Vox had some lovely recordings. 

PD

Sorry, it has been too long.  Do you remember laserlight?  They had some great recordings too!

[prémont]

Haven't heard of Lydia before now.

Nor have I. They probably released very little classical music - if anything at all.

[DavidW]

Nor have I. They probably released very little classical music - if anything at all.

They were everyone, in every music store I went to.  $3 cds.  Oh wait it was Lydian not Lydia.  Here is one of the recordings I had:

[prémont]

They were everyone, in every music store I went to.  $3 cds.  Oh wait it was Lydian not Lydia.

Lydian? That's another matter. I recall them very well and I have kept a number of them, among which some excellent Beethoven piano sonatas (to stay on topic ).   It was Naxos' super budget label.