Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[ritter]

Unsubscribing from the thread.

Really? With the intellectual heights it's reached over the last couple of pages?

[prémont]

Really? With the intellectual heights it's reached over the last couple of pages?

Well, I did my best, but Todd is unsurpassable and he always gets the last word. 

I shall not object if a moderator moves the discussion to the diner in a separate thread.

[Todd]

Really? With the intellectual heights it's reached over the last couple of pages?

One thing is for certain, GMG is very intellectual.  Ask all the usual suspects.

[Madiel]

Really? With the intellectual heights it's reached over the last couple of pages?

Correct.

EDIT: I note we can add the usual form of insulting the quality of the forum that he insists on returning to. There was faint hope that the reason he was gone was because he finally realised the internal inconsistency. But no.

For me, this thread more than any other fails the cost/benefit analysis. It didn't used to be possible to unfollow a thread. These days, it's possible.

[George]

I shall not object if a moderator moves the discussion to the diner in a separate thread.

Yes, please.

[hopefullytrusting]

Yes, please.

My favorite part of this thread is to always be re-reminded when @George posts that he started the thread.

On topic, today I decided to listen to YouTube's newest offerings of my favorite Beethoven Piano Sonata - 109, and I came across one which I would class as spectacular: Erina Ishiyama's (2024) rendition -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDrXzNzF-U

Not only is the sound wonderful (it is also well-filmed), but her articulation is beautiful, and her control, especially over the dynamics in the first movement are first rate. Importantly, as often happens in this work, none of the notes overtake other notes, and all of them are heard crystal clear. The pacing is absolutely spot on, and none of the notes linger (or sustain) too long - each note stays for as long as it needs to grace the ear, and then it moves on to allow the next to be given its proper time and space.

The second movement is vigorous and authoritative, powerful and driving - full of vitality and momentum - forward, onward thrust - the pianist's mechanism is impeccable here, and the third movement, by which this entire sonata lives or dies, is - oh, is, dare I say, just as good as Backhaus. It is warm, fuzzy, like a comfortable blanket fresh out of the dryer. It feels like home, and I wrap myself in it. It tickles my ear in just the right place (sort of like when you are rubbing the butt of a dog, you hit the right spot, and it goes nuts as endorphins overrun its brain - similar to that, but not quite).

High, high recommend.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'm still trying to figure out what James Levine's sexual peccadilloes have to do with the Beethoven piano sonatas.

[prémont]

I shall not object if a moderator moves the discussion to the diner in a separate thread.

I shall change this to: Would a moderator be so kind as to move the above mentioned off-the-thread discussion to a separate thread in the dinner, please.

[Florestan]

Really? With the intellectual heights it's reached over the last couple of pages?

Although derailed, the thread was pretty harmless until the return of the Jedi. 

[prémont]

On topic, today I decided to listen to YouTube's newest offerings of my favorite Beethoven Piano Sonata - 109,

While we are at op. 109 I would like to mention Sunwook Kim - a young South Korean pianist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g-TOeWQ7Y8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvRUJXX9T3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_hGybwsONk

which I came across because I purchased his CD with the three last of LvB's sonatas. His playing is crystal clear like Pollini's but also very beautiful and poetic. Despite his superb piano technique, there is nothing boastful about his playing, on the contrary, he exhibit great humility towards the music.

[hopefullytrusting]

While we are at op. 109 I would like to mention Sunwook Kim - a young South Korean pianist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g-TOeWQ7Y8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvRUJXX9T3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_hGybwsONk

which I came across because I purchased his CD with the three last of LvB's sonatas. His playing is crystal clear like Pollini's but also very beautiful and poetic. Despite his superb piano technique, there is nothing boastful about his playing, on the contrary, he exhibit great humility towards the music.

Indeed, it is a very nice interpretation, but not one that I prefer because he lingers, for my taste, a bit too long on some of the notes, especially in the third movement, which is not to say I don't enjoy his clarity and his respect for artistic interpretation. Additionally, and I don't know how to properly explain this, nor do I know if this is real, empirically, but I am convinced that there is something in the touch of the pianist. For example, a pianist like Cortot, I feel as if there is a sensitive hesitancy that I can feel as they approach the keys, or someone like Edwin Fischer who I would associate with brusqueness (but these could also simply be figments of my imagination - I suppose the true test would be to see if I could detect any significant differences, blindly, between 109s - hmmm).

[ritter]

I shall change this to: Would a moderator be so kind as to move the above mentioned off-the-thread discussion to a separate thread in the dinner, please.

The off-topic posts in this thread clearly do not warrant opening of a new topic in The Diner and moving them there. They will remain where they are, but any further posts in that tone and with that content (or rather, lack thereof) will be deleted at the moderators' discretion.

[prémont]

The off-topic posts in this thread clearly do not warrant opening of a new topic in The Diner and moving them there. They will remain where they are, but any further posts in that tone and with that content (or rather, lack thereof) will be deleted at the moderators' discretion.

That the discussion in question was off topic is of course evident. But I don't understand what you mean with "that tone". I always try to put my post in a decent tone, and Todd for once did similarly - I think.

[ritter]

#5164 through #5198, for starters.

[prémont]

#5164 through #5198, for starters.

I can't say I find it offensive. Compare with the discussions in the "Trump-thread" in the dinner last year, which was allowed to go on for months.

[prémont]

Indeed, it is a very nice interpretation, but not one that I prefer because he lingers, for my taste, a bit too long on some of the notes, especially in the third movement, which is not to say I don't enjoy his clarity and his respect for artistic interpretation. Additionally, and I don't know how to properly explain this, nor do I know if this is real, empirically, but I am convinced that there is something in the touch of the pianist. For example, a pianist like Cortot, I feel as if there is a sensitive hesitancy that I can feel as they approach the keys, or someone like Edwin Fischer who I would associate with brusqueness (but these could also simply be figments of my imagination - I suppose the true test would be to see if I could detect any significant differences, blindly, between 109s - hmmm).

Yes, it's true that Kim lingers on some of the notes. But since it's a part of an otherwise worthwhile interpretation it doesn't exceed my patience threshold. With Bellucci, on the other hand, the lingering on notes is part of a performance which sticks out because of lots of strange interpretative measures.

[hopefullytrusting]

Yes, it's true that Kim lingers on some of the notes. But since it's a part of an otherwise worthwhile interpretation it doesn't exceed my patience threshold. With Bellucci, on the other hand, the lingering on notes is part of a performance which sticks out because of lots of strange interpretative measures.

Hmmm. That's an interesting dichotomy. I'm going to mull over that distinction.

[prémont]

Many pianists have a very characteristic touch. One would think that one should be able to recognize them by that. But blind listening is of course an objective yardstick.