Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Bogey]

There's a mono Pathetique that Maria Grinberg recorded, not the one from her complete set (which is stereo I think), but an earlier recording. It's well worth hearing.  I wonder why you say that E Fischer was sometimes juvenile.

An explanation.  I am not familiar with piano playing terms, but I can tell that during the sonata's third movement his hands were playing two different things.  The high notes that were featured in front and the lower notes.  Not sure what you call these, but the lower notes seemed to be immature sounding when compared to the higher ones....almost as if a youngster new to the keyboard was filling in.  Just my take.

If you find a link to the Grinberg, please post it here.  Thanks!

[Bogey]

Hi Bill, I have it on Dante but that is long gone and anyhow both Pearl and APR should sound better.

Cool.  Any of those labels work for me, including the Naxos!

[Mandryka]

You can download the mono Grinberg Pathetique from Musque Ouverte, it's the LP with op 111 and Rage over a lost penny.

[Holden]

..and now there is this.



Op 10/1 is extremely good to my ears.

Op 22 less so as I like this one a little more forceful than Biss plays it. I felt he could also have taken a bit more time with the slow movement.

Op 26 - some wonderful contrast between the vars in I. A sparkly and swift II though I didn't think there was enough gravitas in the Funeral March.

Op 81a A beautifully weighted opening Adagio with the following Allegro very well played. The Absence was lacking in the range of dynamics (apart from right at the very end to give true sense of longing for return. The Return is suitably joyous.

So what do I make of Mr Biss' playing. FIrst, he has that strong and rhythmically articulate right hand so necessary for good Beethoven playing. His right hand has a pearly quality about it without sounding too crystalline. I just felt that he needs to adopt a wider dynamic range. His phrasing over the short term is first class but I wonder if he sees the bigger picture at this stage like Richter did.

That said, Biss is still only 31 and he is making this cycle over a 9 year period. I wonder if he will look back at Vol 1 and say "I would now do this differently".

You can listen to this on Spotify or MOG.

[Sammy]

..and now there is this.



Op 10/1 is extremely good to my ears.

Op 22 less so as I like this one a little more forceful than Biss plays it. I felt he could also have taken a bit more time with the slow movement.

Op 26 - some wonderful contrast between the vars in I. A sparkly and swift II though I didn't think there was enough gravitas in the Funeral March.

Op 81a A beautifully weighted opening Adagio with the following Allegro very well played. The Absence was lacking in the range of dynamics (apart from right at the very end to give true sense of longing for return. The Return is suitably joyous.

So what do I make of Mr Biss' playing. FIrst, he has that strong and rhythmically articulate right hand so necessary for good Beethoven playing. His right hand has a pearly quality about it without sounding too crystalline. I just felt that he needs to adopt a wider dynamic range. His phrasing over the short term is first class but I wonder if he sees the bigger picture at this stage like Richter did.

That said, Biss is still only 31 and he is making this cycle over a 9 year period. I wonder if he will look back at Vol 1 and say "I would now do this differently".

You can listen to this on Spotify or MOG.

Or NML.

[Todd]

..and now there is this.

There's also his earlier EMI disc.  He's already shown development on disc. 

[sunflowerblues]

Blimey! Nearly forgot about the "Gulda 0" cycle. First page of LvB-Sonata-Survey updated accordingly.

I'm confused. Is this the Amadeo set, Gulda II?

The back cover mentions both Amadeo and Decca.

[jlaurson]

I'm confused. Is this the Amadeo set, Gulda II?

The back cover mentions both Amadeo and Decca.

Yes, yes... the Amadeo set (Gulda II, if we call the radio cycle "0", rec. in 68) has been re-issued on Brilliant in the US and on Decca Eloquence in Europe (and now worldwide).

[Fafner]

A seemingly simple question for the experts here.  What cycle in good, modern sound, would be the closest in spirit to Kempff?

[George]

A seemingly simple question for the experts here.  What cycle in good, modern sound, would be the closest in spirit to Kempff?

John O'Conor. 

[Fafner]

John O'Conor.

I have that cycle, and within my relatively modest collection - Kempff (50's and 60's), Brendel (70's), Arrau, Pommier, Barenboim (EMI) O'Conor, Nat, Lortie, Backhaus (60's) Brautigam, Gilels (DG), Kovacevich- that would be the one I would have picked as the modern Kempff.  I was wondering what others might be out there.

What attracts me to Kempff is that he doesn't give the impression that he is giving a performance, so much as he is playing for himself and we have the privileged of eavesdropping. 

Currently trying to maintain the force of will not to get the Takacs.

[Mandryka]

What attracts me to Kempff is that he doesn't give the impression that he is giving a performance, so much as he is playing for himself and we have the privileged of eavesdropping. 

This is a very interesting question. The Beethoven pianist who comes to mind for me is Cziffra. But there are only a handful of sonatas on record.

Also, maybe, sometimes in Elly Ney's postwar records. And possibly in Pogorelich's later records -- not the DG but some of the DVDs and the concert recordings. And maybe in Anatol Ugorsky's records. And maybe that one that Pletnev did on Rachmaninov's piano.

But it's a hard quality to find. In which sonatas do you hear it in Kempff?  (and which cycle?)

[Mandryka]

The hunch I had that Cziffra's Beethoven has the desired confidential syle turned out to be confirmed when I listened to some recordings today. But not really for all the others I'd thought of:Ney, Pletnev, Pogorelich. I can't bring myself to listen to Ugorsky.

But one record which certainly does meet the requirement is Gould's early radio recordings, the one which includes some Bagatelles and Op 101 and Op 49/1. Also the live Op 110 from Stockholm. Gould was like that live sometimes: his Salzburg Mozart sonata has something of that quality. The radio performance is a truly wonderful CD  I think.

I have no idea how subjective these things are.

[Fafner]

But it's a hard quality to find. In which sonatas do you hear it in Kempff?  (and which cycle?)

It is a quality that I hear in some degree in all of Kempff's solo piano recordings.  I've recently been listening to his Schubert Sonata series and I hear it there, in particular. 

[early grey]

Just a reminder that there are 11 of Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas recorded for the Beethoven Sonata Society, hiss and crackle free, to be found here
               http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/transcriptions_07.php
if you haven't yet sampled them, or even if you have (!), why not give them a(nother) try.

[Brian]

I'm back-to-backing the Op 10 sets of HJ Lim and Ronald Brautigam on the suspicion that of people who only take 11 minutes to blast through 10/2, Brautigam will be the better pianist.

[Fafner]

I'm back-to-backing the Op 10 sets of HJ Lim and Ronald Brautigam on the suspicion that of people who only take 11 minutes to blast through 10/2, Brautigam will be the better pianist.

Hating HJ Lim seems to have become a cult here.

[Todd]

Hating HJ Lim seems to have become a cult here.

Not a cult.  A reasonable reaction to her awful playing.  I mean she's really bad.  As in Anne Oland bad.  Compare her playing to Stewart Goodyear, Jean Efflam Bavouzet, Francois Frederic Guy, or even Christian Leotta (to name just other LvB releases from this year) and her awfulness is clear.

[Ataraxia]

Is HJ Lim the one with the ten buck full cycle?

[Todd]

Is HJ Lim the one with the ten buck full cycle?

Yes, on iTunes.  (For only $7 more, one can get the far better complete cycle from Seymour Lipkin on CD-ROM, and his set comes with the sheet music.)