Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Pat B]

Trudelies Leonhardt's op. 28 with a Seidner fortepiano from ~1815-20 (on Globe) has really grown on me. Today I listened again and liked it so much that I pulled out two bigger names, Kempff (mono) and Gulda (on Amadeo) for comparison (I don't have any other fortepiano recordings of this). The differences in instrument sound are obvious -- clarity and all that. Going beyond that, I think her performance is on a very high level. Her phrasing is very musical. She uses lots of agogic hesitations, but they are very subtle, so that the pulse never gets lost. I like her playing a lot.

It was an interesting experience. I don't usually do much comparative listening.

[asin]B0000264D4[/asin]

[Holden]

Listening to Opus 101 right now and this is more to my likings. Plenty of innigste Empfindung in movement I, good feeling for contrasting (e)motions in the Scherzo, and a good balance between right and left hand. Maybe I miss a certain amount of Sehnsucht in the slow movement, but Zhao is certainly 'risoluto' enough in the Finale.

I have to admit though that I'm no Beethoven 'expert' at all. I just listen to this great music and enjoy. Even though I know at least a handful (or two) of other Beethoven pianists, I wouldn't dare to make a Top 10 and I wouldn't know how to appreciate Zhao compared to others. Besides that, I've only listened to 2 sonatas so far. But if you can find this set for a cheap price (like some of the mp3 downloads available) it's certainly a steal.

This is now on Spotify so I've sampled a range of the sonatas. For a 19 year old this is reasonably good LvB but it's very MOR. I was thinking about any other very young pianists who might have recorded the '32 and Barenboim came to mind so I did some comparisons. While Zhao is technically very secure there are one or two of the finer aspects of technical prowess that she is yet to fully master. Dynamic range is one and it stands out when comparing her to the young Barenboim. The Arietta of Op 111 is the best case in point. Where DB produces a hushed ethereal atmosphere, Zhao does not play quietly enough to achieve this effect.

That said, her music might certainly mature as she grows older. I sampled Her Liszt TEs and there are strong indications of her innate musicality but once again (Harmonies du Soir) limited dynamic range is obvious. She will remain on my radar.

[early grey]

My latest offering of Schnabel's Beethoven Sonatas transferred from 78s is Volume 8 which contains Sonatas No.3 in C major (Op.2 No.3), No.17 in D minor (Opus 31 No.2) and No.22 in F major (Opus 54). My impression is that the residual noise is a somewhat reduced in these transfers and I hope listeners feel that too. These performances show that the pianist gave no quarter when the opportunity for grandstanding was available and I feel that some of LVB's subtlety goes begging. For example the finale of Opus 17 is a power house of pianism whereas the score allows for quite a degree of delicacy. Similarly the 2nd movement of opus 54 doesn't have to be the harum-scarum moto-perpetuo we hear, albeit pretty exciting! Elsewhere and particularly the slow movements there is a welcome lack of boisterousness and minimal sentimentality. Each sonata seems to have a different acoustic with No.3 very dry, No.17 clangy and resonant and No.22 relatively normal. 

http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/transcriptions_13.php

If you select Classical 1 from the navigation bar you will find Brahms' 1st Piano Concerto with Schnabel as soloist. The orchestral introduction is very passionate and some details of orchestration are interesting given the techniques of the day, worth a listen.

[xochitl]

just heard Kempff do the Waldstein [mono] after years of staying away based on the stereo op57 & 106 [among other things]. i couldn't figure out for my life why people swore by his beethoven.

but this Walstein is MIRACULOUS! :flail:
i feel like i just found the holy grail. looking forward to the rest of the mono cycle!

[king ubu]

I like the Kempff mono a lot (don't know his stereo), but his late sonatas aren't all that good, I find. His kinda "improvisatory" playing and rather soft touch doesn't help him much there, I find.

[aquablob]

Kempff mono is just great. Love the playing, love the sound. Among the late sonatas, his Op. 109 stands out to me.

Of course, I'm also fond of Kempff stereo...

[struwwelpeter]

I'm still catching up on this thread - about page 60 at the moment, but I wondered if the helpful folk here might be able to clear something up for me?  In the notes to his 'Artist's Choice' collection, Brendel says that the included version of the Hammerklavier is his favourite of the five recordings he made of the piece.  I've been looking and I can only find four: the early Vox, the 1970s Philips one, the BBC live one from 1983 (also released by Philips), and the live one from Vienna in 1995 included on his 1990s cycle (and appearing in the Artist's Choice).  Was there another?

[Mandryka]

I'm still catching up on this thread - about page 60 at the moment, but I wondered if the helpful folk here might be able to clear something up for me?  In the notes to his 'Artist's Choice' collection, Brendel says that the included version of the Hammerklavier is his favourite of the five recordings he made of the piece.  I've been looking and I can only find four: the early Vox, the 1970s Philips one, the BBC live one from 1983 (also released by Philips), and the live one from Vienna in 1995 included on his 1990s cycle (and appearing in the Artist's Choice).  Was there another?

I too only know the four you mention. I very much like the 1995 Vienna one.

[Pat B]

I don't know any of them, but a quick amazon search reveals a 1970 Paris recording on an EMI DVD. It's also on this Bluray which is on my wishlist.

[amw]

This is a quite fascinating comparison of tempos in the first movement of 106.  It seems that Schnabel wins by a short head over Korstick, Geiseking and Leslie (who I think is excellent).  Barenboim and Gould get the wooden spoon.

http://www.sim.spk-berlin.de/en/5_autograph_tempo_in_beethoven%92s_%93hammerklavier_sonata%94_1321.html

I put together some comparative timings for the sonata, but I'm not sure it helped very much; though I did discover Leslie (who is indeed excellent, though the sound is not great) and my favourite non-fast 106/i, Buchbinder. (Well, sorta non-fast. His opening tempo is about the same as Gulda's, but then he slows down significantly for the second theme... speeds up again into the fugue... etc. It's a highly dramatic rendition & v effective.) Lévinas is also in the half note = 120 range, though less polished; Taub and Goodyear both clock somewhere around 123. Mélodie Zhao is with PBS and Leslie in the environs of 116.

However closeness to the indicated metronome mark doesn't seem to indicate whether I will actually like the performance. I didn't like Taub or Goodyear very much for instance. (I didn't like Gieseking very much either; don't think it was the slips, Lévinas has lots of those and I like him.)

Similarly in the fugue

<---- Beethoven's indication of quarter note = 144 ---->
Goodyear - 143
Schnabel - 139
Korstick - 137
Taub - 136
Gieseking - 135
Zhao - 134
...
Gulda - 129 <------- second favourite probably
Arrau - 128 <------- my personal favourite performance
Kovacevich - 126 <------- another one I like
...
etc.

Also, I was sort of shocked to see how many slow movements are over 20 minutes long. I thought the average was like... 16 or 17.

[Fred]

CAROL ROSENBERGER - Listened to her play op 57 and 111 on Delos.  Prodigious technique.  Fourth variation of the arietta floored me. Wondered why I never heard of her before.  Interesting article.

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-24/entertainment/ca-30081_1_carol-rosenberger

[jlaurson]

So far so promising! Wholly different kettle of fish than the HJ Lim thing.

[George]

So far so promising! Wholly different kettle of fish than the HJ Lim thing.

Tell us more!!

[jlaurson]

Tell us more!!

well played... not ostentatious... but with very nice rhythmic takes, notably unusual, in a very pleasing way, in the Largo of op.7, for example... only on disc 4 so far -- but so far, a very enchanting experience, which I cannot say about all LvB cycles.

[Holden]

I listened to these on Spotify a few weeks ago and agree that they are good performances. However, a limited dynamic  range does have an overall effect after a while and maybe that is something that Zhao needs to work on.

[André]

Just listened with much interest to Yves Nat playing 28 and 30-32.

Any one cares to comment on his playing ? I know he is much revered in France, but from his integral (this is the last disc) I have had moments of elation and others of ho-humness.

[George]

Just listened with much interest to Yves Nat playing 28 and 30-32.

Any one cares to comment on his playing ? I know he is much revered in France, but from his integral (this is the last disc) I have had moments of elation and others of ho-humness.

I enjoy his set. Not among my top favorites, but definitely a consistent set, with unique interpretations. I really like his Op. 7.

[Mandryka]

Someone just put me on to this recording by Peter Serkin, saying that it's valuable because somehow he succeeds in playing with very long phrases on a Graf. I've been playing the op 109, and they're right. It's as if Serkin's fortepiano has the sustain of a modrn piano in some of the voices. The result is something quite different from the usual story on period instrument - a real cantabile performance. Worth catching - I can imagine for some people this is the ideal late Beethoven - all the clarity and percussiveness  of a Graf and yet all the lyricism of a modern instrument, the performance deeply felt and romantic, not unlike his father's.

I'm looking forward to exploring the other sonatas on the CD

[Mandryka]

Just listened with much interest to Yves Nat playing 28 and 30-32.

Any one cares to comment on his playing ? I know he is much revered in France, but from his integral (this is the last disc) I have had moments of elation and others of ho-humness.

Better in the ealy sonatas, op 2 ans 10

[André]

The Fugue in the Hammerklavier is one nut that continues to resist me. But yesterday's listening of the Nat performance left me in shambles. I had never heard the jerky nature of that fugue so eloquently argued and naturally voiced as here. Mind you it's still a crazy piece (like the Grosse Fuge), but I uderstand it better now.