Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Mandryka]

A really impressive Op 111 on this 2CD set from Melodiya

There's one which I think is even more impressive from his concerts in 2004, the one recorded (very well) in Bad Kissingen. I can upload it for you if you want.

[Fred]

I note that Lukas Geniusas is about to bring out a Hammerklavier. According to the back cover at Amazon, the first movement will be 8 minutes 42 seconds (sic).  Surely, that is a new record 

[Jo498]

If the repeat is played, probably yes. Korstick is a few seconds under 9 minutes (including repeat), I think.

[amw]

If he leaves out the repeat he's taking it at about the same speed as Kempff; if he takes it it's the record, though not by much.  Schnabel clocks in at 8:44 with repeat (8:48 on some transfers), Gieseking is next in line at 9:00 dead on and Korstick third (though more technically secure than either) at 9:08. I think Robert Taub is 4th.

[Jo498]

On the back of my ars musici (this was an older issue) disc of Korstick it says 8:59, but I have not checked the actual length (there is often some silence before the end of a track).
Gieseking is with repeat? where did this one appear? I wasn't even aware of its existence. Gulda is at something like 9:25 with repeat and I think Goodyear? (pretty recent one, I only heard bits of it online when it came out) was also really fast, around about 9 min. I'd guess.
I seem to recall that I found Schnabel and Korstick too hectic for my taste, taking it a little slower like Gulda (or even into the 10:30-50 of Pollini, Arrau, Rosen) and more flexible is more successfull. The flexibility in the more lyrical bits might be more important than the actual speed/playing time.

[amw]

Beethoven was very clear that a metronome marking was supposed to apply only to the opening bars of a work, and that the tempo should change with the character of the music (though subtly enough that it could only be detected by the most sophisticated ear, or something). Korstick's playing of 106/i is exemplary as to the way everyone should be doing it, but unfortunately he's not quite good enough to pull it off—technically it's perfect, the character of the movement comes through in the best possible way, but musically he doesn't emphasize the right notes (listen to the very opening where he doesn't bring out the motive in the 5th finger of the right hand for instance) or allow the phrases to breathe. Compared to what e.g. Richter or Serkin might have been able to do with this movement at this tempo, it's a bit prosaic. But for whatever reason the greatest pianists don't seem to want to take the time to learn the Hammerklavier at tempo, or aren't able to, or something. I'm not sure.

For 106/i it's hard to recommend anyone faster than Gulda (9:27), Goodyear if you can tolerate bad sound. Gulda plays slower on average but still does come up to the Schnabel tempo on occasions. A similar recommendation can be made for Michaël Lévinas (9:30)—who unlike Gulda establishes the tempo at the beginning, but then slows down more significantly. Rosen 1965 (10:17) is exemplary in how to play the Hammerklavier more slowly while still conveying the character of the music. Others in the 9:50-10:00 range are also recommendable e.g. PBS (on a Graf 1824), Michael Leslie (bad sound again) or Mélodie Zhao. I generally don't see a good reason to listen to 106/is exceeding 10:45 ish—doesn't seem like there's much anyone can bring to the slow Hammerklavier that hasn't already been brought by Pollini or Gilels.

There's a Gieseking recital from 1949 on Music & Arts and now a complete cycle being assembled—not sure if those are two different versions. I wouldn't recommend either one by the way.

[Mandryka]

Comments appreciated on this old recording of op 110 by Ernst Levy, especially about the way he plays the third movement.

People who know about the music: how "correct" is it, in the sense of whether or not it goes against Beethoven's expressed intentions in the score etc? Does it matter?

http://www.youtube.com/v/VwdCZMXD0F0

(Extraordinary that a recording of this stature, of this degree of imagination, should be so little known.)

[Cosi bel do]

Yes it's one of the most remarkable recordings of this sonata, there are several of them but it might be in my top five.

Levy's permanent rhetorical care doesn't impede the perfect fluidity of his playing. Such a perfect mix of complete control and total freedom is just fascinating. And I think the last movement is an authentic tour de force: Levy avoids and even rejects any notion of rythmic safety, and again, with much freedom, he entirely concentrates on the building of tension, progressively, as if aggregating or melting it from the smallest elements, out of nowhere.

Levy's interpretations are always among the most remarkable and without equivalent at the same time, and it is among the absolute best in my opinion, as is his op. 111, by the way. It's just a shame it is not more widely (and cheaply) distributed. It is public domain after all...

[amw]

Comments appreciated on this old recording of op 110 by Ernst Levy, especially about the way he plays the third movement.

People who know about the music: how "correct" is it, in the sense of whether or not it goes against Beethoven's expressed intentions in the score etc? Does it matter?

http://www.youtube.com/v/VwdCZMXD0F0

(Extraordinary that a recording of this stature, of this degree of imagination, should be so little known.)

Indeed a superlative performance. In its combination of extreme attention to detail with fluidity and a natural sense of architecture it reminds me somewhat of Charles Rosen's own recording of Op. 110 (specifically his third and finest one, 1997), though not in most other ways. (Levy's obviously thought it out in great detail; if he too wrote a book that involves the Beethoven sonatas, it's worth reading.) The 2nd arioso is an inspired moment, if I hadn't heard it myself I would have sworn it to be impossible to play it that way and make it work. Perhaps most remarkable overall is the sense of space created by the almost-excessive tapering of phrases, like tempo "hairpins", which if he used them less often (or less carefully) would turn into an irritating mannerism. Conveys the feeling of the sonata being much bigger than it is if that makes any sense, like there's so much more we can't hear under the surface. I'm probably just less eloquently repeating things Scherzian wrote but whatever.

[Mandryka]

Re the second movement, which is for me the hard one, especially in the scherzo, I'm not sure if I've heard a more convincing performance than Levy's.

[Mandryka]

Indeed a superlative performance. In its combination of extreme attention to detail with fluidity and a natural sense of architecture it reminds me somewhat of Charles Rosen's own recording of Op. 110 (specifically his third and finest one, 1997), though not in most other ways. (Levy's obviously thought it out in great detail; if he too wrote a book that involves the Beethoven sonatas, it's worth reading.) The 2nd arioso is an inspired moment, if I hadn't heard it myself I would have sworn it to be impossible to play it that way and make it work. Perhaps most remarkable overall is the sense of space created by the almost-excessive tapering of phrases, like tempo "hairpins", which if he used them less often (or less carefully) would turn into an irritating mannerism. Conveys the feeling of the sonata being much bigger than it is if that makes any sense, like there's so much more we can't hear under the surface. I'm probably just less eloquently repeating things Scherzian wrote but whatever.

One  remarkable thing about the op 110/iii is the way he manages tempo and dynamics. The way the first fugue gets faster and faster and at the same time increases in volume, becoming euphoric. And then -- and this is a real stroke of genius, the 2nd arisoso begins with quite a fast pace, and quite loud -- as if it got some energy from the fugue. Energy which recedes, dies down, exhausts itself, burns out  (quieter, slower pulse.) Has there ever been a more rapt, more dramatic, sequence of chords? I can't help but think of those chords at the end of the Liszt sonata, which Levy plays so well.

The final fugue seems to increase in energy -- again pulse and volume increasing. This is the most dionysian, the most life affirming, the most dynamic demonic, final fugue ever.

[Wanderer]

Is it available on CD?

[George]

Is it available on CD?

Sadly, no. Marston has only CD-R copies. http://www.marstonrecords.com/html/order.htm

It' s in Volume 2 of their Levy series: http://www.marstonrecords.com/levy2/levy2_liner.htm

[Wanderer]

Thanks, gents! It's truly a superlative rendition.

[George]

Thanks, gents! It's truly a superlative rendition.

Levy is one of those great, hidden pianists. I recommend all four volumes of his work on the Marston label.

[Wanderer]

Alas, the Marston site is not compatible with secure ordering and there's no way I'm sending my credit card details via fax.

George, if you ever happen to find a second copy in that nice place off Union Square, do grab it for me. 

[George]

Alas, the Marston site is not compatible with secure ordering and there's no way I'm sending my credit card details via fax.

George, if you ever happen to find a second copy in that nice place off Union Square, do grab it for me. 

Will do, buddy!

[Cosi bel do]

It's a shame only Marston would distribute Levy's record, even while they are PD. I mean, Membran could really make a best seller 10 CD box out of these recordings...
I actually don't own any of these Marston CDs : they are expensive and most of them were already out of print when I started to get interested in Levy a few years ago. And I really don't want to pay that much for a CD-R, that plus the fact it's public domain, I'd really feel robbed...

[Mandryka]

I'm planning to re-listen to this performance of Op.110 by Ernst Levy tonight (CET...  ).  The third movement is obviously where Ernst Levy's mastery of musical time, within the largest of forms, is at its apex; I remember it being extremely convincing (to me, I mean) and equally dauntless.  Each main `section' (Adagio ma non troppo, Recitativo, First Arioso, Fugue, Second Arioso, Inversion of the Fugue) progressively blends into its neighbour.  An example of a mind playing the musical spirit that lies beyond the letter and that the letter, IMO, calls for.  I can certainly understand why it would be dismissed (though I would probably not agree with the reasons for dismissing it).  Apart from the somewhat extreme level of broad tempo malleability throughout the third movement, I don't recall any aspect of the performance that could be considered `incorrect'.  For me, it does not go against any indication present in the score, but it does liberally and extensively expands those indications throughout the Finale.  And even that large-scale tempo ductility does seem to me to obey one important aspect of the piece (as pointed out by Charles Rosen, for instance), namely the progressive `densification' of the contrapuntal textures firstly through an enlargement of the tempo (at bar Nr.168, Meno allegro, Etwas langsamer), and secondly through a subsequent broad accelerando (at about bars Nr.172-173, nach und nach wieder geschwinder).  What I'm saying isn't clear at all...  I'll try to post another message tonight.  Charles Rosen has some extremely interesting insights about the Finale in his so-called `little' guide; I'll try to find them (and translate them back to English, where they belong...).  And Levy's piano playing is fabulous, of course!

EDIT:  While I was typing (and checking...) my message, came in Discobolus' message.  I wholeheartedly agree with Discobolus.  Op.110 has an enviable number of great, great performances on disc:  Edwin Fischer, Maria Grinberg, Emil Gilels, Heinrich Neuhaus, Rudolf Serkin (at least the one from the early 1960s), Anatoly Vedernikov, Sviatoslav Richter (all of them, early or later!), and I'm sure I'm forgetting some of them, maybe even Yves Nat and Wilhelm Backhaus are interesting here.  And I'd like to point out the fabulous recording made in February 1980 at Saratov (Philharmonic Hall) by Igor Zhukov; this one is available on a Telos CD, and should not be missed. Zhukov is probably less `daring' than Ernst Levy, but the quality of his playing is completely off the chart.  The first movement, for example, finds an exquisite lyric-like quality that's extremely rare, I think, especially thanks to the quality of his sonority and the length of its resonance. Igor Zhukov also manages each and every transition (and we know they are vital here) to utmost perfection.  Unbelievable, really.  From the technical side, the Telos CD is exceptional, too.

This was a very good suggestion, thanks for sharing your discovery.

[Holden]

Todd is going get another workout. The much anticipated Pollini box set comes out on Tuesday. It's already on Spotify. There are some multiple recordings of some of the sonatas by MP so I wonder which ones they will choose?