Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Brian]

I remember going to the record shop when Goode's set was peak-hype... and I wanted it so badly. the store opened the set to let me listen to it... and after a few minutes of op.106 or op.111 I was very considerably calmer about not being able to really afford it. I wasn't much impressed... although I might also have missed something at the time. But it certainly wasn't crystalline Pollini-esque. Eventually I might want to try Heisieck, too, but only if I can find an inexpensive only-the-Beethoven set. For Yves Nat I made an exception and got the box with all his stuff... but filed it under Beethoven and I ignore the rest. Probably at my peril. It's a filing-purity thing. :-)

I got the Heidsieck Beethoven only set (8 CDs) from Berkshire Record Outlet $40 used. Definitely worth it, to me.

[André]

The EMI set can be had for 82$ CAD (approx 60$ US), but I find that a bit steep.

Much better than that is this set




I own it, and that's where I got the Heidsieck sonatas. But wait ! There's more (tadaaamm) !
For a paltry 75$ US (Used-like new) on Amazon this set presents you with some of the gems of Beethoven's discography:

- Symphonies and Overtures by the BP under Cluytens (as good as any for its period).
- Concertos with Gilels (*) and Gelber (piano), Oistrakh (violin).
- Violin Sonatas with Christian Ferras, Cello Sonatas with Tortelier and Heidsieck.
- The piano trios with the Hungarian Trio (great team - hungarian instrumentists of the time towered over their european counterparts)
- The string quartets under the fabled Hungarian Quartet. Believe me, doesn't come any better than this.
- Missa Solemnis under Giulini, Fidelio under Karajan

- And all the bits and ends, chirps from the workbench you'd never spend money for, but hey ! they had to make this into a 50-disc box, so there you have it.

The only con is that cover - so unsexy and old-looking. But that will be our little secret. Just don't show it to your snobbish friends 


(*) PS: Gilels recorded some or all the concertos 3 times on EMI. What one hears here are 1, 2 and 4 under Vandernoot (plus the Triple concerto with friends). There were subsequent versions under Leopold Ludwig (warm and very dramatic),  George Szell (formidable in its 'imposing, glacial' meaning). As for the Oistrakh Violin Concerto, he too recorded it more than once. This is the warm, smiling Cluytens performance. Oistrakh re-recorded it later for EMI, this time under Klemperer's frown.

Don't discard this hodge-podge: the piano sonatas and string quartets are among the best ever.

[Florestan]

Gilels recorded some or all the concertos 3 times on EMI. What one hears here are 1, 2 and 4 under Vandernoot. There were subsequent versions under Leopold Ludwig (warm and very dramatic),  George Szell (formidable in its 'imposing, glacial' meaning).

IMHO, the best Beethoven concertos that Gilels ever recorded are the complete live ones with Kurt Masur and the State Orchestra of the USSR.



Probably the best behaved live audience in the whole history of live recordings.

[Holden]

I've got a lot of LvB PS recordings which is why I feel reasonably confident in expressing what I think about various sets. I have Annie Fischer, Barenboim EMI, Kempff mono, Schnabel, Ciani, Brendel VOX, Gulda of course, the near complete Gilels plus Michael Houstoun.

For me, the best sets were never completed. Richter is a pianist I always enjoy in Beethoven but the real tragedy was that Bruce Hungerford never got to finish the 32.

I mainly rely on individual CDs of sonatas when I want to listen to what I currently feel are the best recordings and can also use both Spotify and YouTube.

There was a thread a few years ago where we were invited to state our preferred version of the individual sonatas. It might now be interesting to see what I wrote then.

[George]

IMHO, the best Beethoven concertos that Gilels ever recorded are the complete live ones with Kurt Masur and the State Orchestra of the USSR.



Probably the best behaved live audience in the whole history of live recordings.

There's a live performance of a sonata or two in that set that changed mind about Gilels being a laid back, mellow performer.

[NorthNYMark]

The EMI set can be had for 82$ CAD (approx 60$ US), but I find that a bit steep.

Much better than that is this set




I own it, and that's where I got the Heidsieck sonatas. But wait ! There's more (tadaaamm) !
For a paltry 75$ US (Used-like new) on Amazon this set presents you with some of the gems of Beethoven's discography:

- Symphonies and Overtures by the BP under Cluytens (as good as any for its period).


- Concertos with Gilels (*) and Gelber (piano), Oistrakh (violin).
- Violin Sonatas with Christian Ferras, Cello Sonatas with Tortelier and Heidsieck.
- The piano trios with the Hungarian Trio (great team - hungarian instrumentists of the time towered over their european counterparts)
- The string quartets under the fabled Hungarian Quartet. Believe me, doesn't come any better than this.
- Missa Solemnis under Giulini, Fidelio under Karajan

- And all the bits and ends, chirps from the workbench you'd never spend money for, but hey ! they had to make this into a 50-disc box, so there you have it.

The only con is that cover - so unsexy and old-looking. But that will be our little secret. Just don't show it to your snobbish friends 


(*) PS: Gilels recorded some or all the concertos 3 times on EMI. What one hears here are 1, 2 and 4 under Vandernoot (plus the Triple concerto with friends). There were subsequent versions under Leopold Ludwig (warm and very dramatic),  George Szell (formidable in its 'imposing, glacial' meaning). As for the Oistrakh Violin Concerto, he too recorded it more than once. This is the warm, smiling Cluytens performance. Oistrakh re-recorded it later for EMI, this time under Klemperer's frown.

Don't discard this hodge-podge: the piano sonatas and string quartets are among the best ever.

This is very tempting indeed, though I already own the Cluytens symphony set (and am in the camp that prefers Cluytens's interpretations to those of several more famous conductors of the period).

[jlaurson]

The EMI set can be had for 82$ CAD (approx 60$ US), but I find that a bit steep.

Much better than that is this set




I own it, and that's where I got the Heidsieck sonatas. But wait ! There's more (tadaaamm) !
For a paltry 75$ US (Used-like new) on Amazon this set presents you with some of the gems of Beethoven's discography:

- Symphonies and Overtures by the BP under Cluytens (as good as any for its period).
- Concertos with Gilels (*) and Gelber (piano), Oistrakh (violin).
- Violin Sonatas with Christian Ferras, Cello Sonatas with Tortelier and Heidsieck.
- The piano trios with the Hungarian Trio (great team - hungarian instrumentists of the time towered over their european counterparts)
- The string quartets under the fabled Hungarian Quartet. Believe me, doesn't come any better than this.
- Missa Solemnis under Giulini, Fidelio under Karajan

- And all the bits and ends, chirps from the workbench you'd never spend money for, but hey ! they had to make this into a 50-disc box, so there you have it.

The only con is that cover - so unsexy and old-looking. But that will be our little secret. Just don't show it to your snobbish friends 


(*) PS: Gilels recorded some or all the concertos 3 times on EMI. What one hears here are 1, 2 and 4 under Vandernoot (plus the Triple concerto with friends). There were subsequent versions under Leopold Ludwig (warm and very dramatic),  George Szell (formidable in its 'imposing, glacial' meaning). As for the Oistrakh Violin Concerto, he too recorded it more than once. This is the warm, smiling Cluytens performance. Oistrakh re-recorded it later for EMI, this time under Klemperer's frown.

Don't discard this hodge-podge: the piano sonatas and string quartets are among the best ever.

Wait, are you and this guy the same guy? I was just going to use your example to counter... you. :-)

I forgot: I kept Kubelik and Levine's quasi cycle (RCA).

I did like Chailly in some of the symphonies (the 6th in particular has a high ooomph level). But what I'm after in a cycle is a point of view that is clear, consistent and easily distinguishable from others. That brings my level of understanding to a higher level, and sharpens my understanding of the music.

For the same reason as Chailly's Mahler, I recently discarded Colin Davis' Staatskapelle cycle of the Beethoven symphonies. Although it contains what is possibly the best Eroica I know. I'll repurchase it as a single. Having it alone in my collection will confer it its true meaning. Buried in a solid but comfy, laid back cycle of the 9 deprives it of its special stature.

I don't want the symphonies... the Hungarians I suppose I do want, but I could get them from Regis, probably... the Ferras I probably would like to hear... none of the concertos strike me as interesting. And then there's that thing where I just don't want those recordings that I truly care for buried in a solid but comfy, laid back cycle of 50 random masterworks, since that would deprive 'em of their special stature.

[André]

Good shot  . I guess I struck a certain chord here 

[kishnevi]

The only complaint I have about that EMI France set is the crappy packaging: a flimsy cardboard cube with track listings and paper envelopes for the CDs. Nothing more.
But the Heisdick and the chamber works are worth the price.

[André]

Indeed, that's what you get. Nothing more. And nothing less either.

[NorthNYMark]

George, Cato and Jens,

(I would quote your earlier posts directly, but can't figure out how do do multiple quotations from beyond the most recent page).

Very interesting (and remarkably consistent) explanations for the appeal of Backhaus. You each seem to be saying the he understands the overall structure of the work in ways that adds something unusual to his performances. I'm curious as to whether any of you has any sense of what that "big picture" knowledge allows him to do, more specifically? Do most other pianists (in your opinions) mischaracterize early movements (or earlier sections of movements) because they are insufficiently conscious of what is coming up later? Or do you mean more that decades of playing has given him a different intuitive feel that cannot be explained?

[prémont]

... the Hungarians [Bethoven quartets] I  suppose I do want, but I could get them from Regis, probably...

The recording on Regis (mono from the 1950s) is different from the recording on EMI (stereo from the 1960s).

[George]

Very interesting (and remarkably consistent) explanations for the appeal of Backhaus. You each seem to be saying the he understands the overall structure of the work in ways that adds something unusual to his performances. I'm curious as to whether any of you has any sense of what that "big picture" knowledge allows him to do, more specifically?

It allows him to confidently take the listener through each work, without spending too much time sniffing any one flower. It results, in at least this listener's experience, in the listener feeling as though they are in knowing hands. This, in turn, gives the listener a better understanding of the overall structure of the work. It's as if Backhaus is inside of the music, so much so that he can pull you inside as well. Sure, many other pianists have played this music more beautifully, more intense, but to me, no one was more inside this music than Backhaus. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Beethoven's music deserves better than a goode performance.

Goode certainly isn't "bad" enough to deserve the doormat treatment, here. (Not singling you out, George). He may not be an extrovert like some of the others but for my money he has the keenest poetic sense of the lot. "Poetic" goes a long way for me in keeping this overexposed music fresh and vital, as opposed to force-feeding me with some new "angle" or whatnot.

If nothing else he certainly gets good press in many other corners of the classical world. Apparently though that counts against him on this thread, at least for some, anyway.

I've always viewed him as an unassuming sort who records little, has no cult following, sticks to a tiny label, yet somehow manages to invoke the ire of the "Beethoven-sonata-loving" crowd to no end!

More power to him, I say!  

[San Antone]

Goode certainly isn't "bad" enough to deserve the doormat treatment, here. (Not singling you out, George). He may not be an extrovert like some of the others but for my money he has the keenest poetic sense of the lot. "Poetic" goes a long way for me in keeping this overexposed music fresh and vital, as opposed to force-feeding me with some new "angle" or whatnot.

If nothing else he certainly gets good press in many other corners of the classical world. Apparently though that counts against him on this thread, at least for some, anyway.

I've always viewed him as an unassuming sort who records little, has no cult following, sticks to a tiny label, yet somehow manages to invoke the ire of the "Beethoven-sonata-loving" crowd to no end!

More power to him, I say!

Hear, hear!

It's also nice to see John O'Conor getting some love.

[George]

Goode certainly isn't "bad" enough to deserve the doormat treatment, here. (Not singling you out, George). He may not be an extrovert like some of the others but for my money he has the keenest poetic sense of the lot. "Poetic" goes a long way for me in keeping this overexposed music fresh and vital, as opposed to force-feeding me with some new "angle" or whatnot.

I actually don't find him lacking in extroversion. And I agree poetic sense is important. I just find more poetry in Schnabel, Kempff, Gilels and Lucchesini's Beethoven. And for the record I don't dislike Goode's Beethoven, I just like others more. 

If nothing else he certainly gets good press in many other corners of the classical world. Apparently though that counts against him on this thread, at least for some, anyway.

His popularity doesn't count against him for me. (You may already know that.)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I actually don't find him lacking in extroversion. And I agree poetic sense is important. I just find more poetry in Schnabel, Kempff, Gilels and Lucchesini's Beethoven. And for the record I don't dislike Goode's Beethoven, I just like others more.

Yes, Gilels is definitely up there in terms of poetry. I should've mentioned him.

His popularity doesn't count against him for me. (You may already know that.)

That's goode!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

It's also nice to see John O'Conor getting some love.

+1

[GioCar]

I'm reading great things on Lucchesini's Beethoven in this thread, despite being the pianist quite unknown (well, if compared to Schnabel, Kempff, Gilels, and so on).
Anyway, I'm getting more and more curious, and I am really thinking of getting his Beethoven box set. The problem is...the price! $800.00 (used) on Amazon!

I still have some hopes: I also found out that the whole set is dowloadable from PrestoClassical for "only" £73.00 (CD quality FLAC) but my question now is: is it worth? I have never paid so much for a downloading. I already have many (at least for me) complete sets: Backhaus, Arrau, Annie Fischer, Barenboim, Goode, Lewis, Pollini, and I'n not so sure I'd pay about €90.00 (or $100.00) for another set, in FLAC files only.
But my curiosity is growing ... 

[George]

I still have some hopes: I also found out that the whole set is dowloadable from PrestoClassical for "only" £73.00 (CD quality FLAC) but my question now is: is it worth? I have never paid so much for a downloading. I already have many (at least for me) complete sets: Backhaus, Arrau, Annie Fischer, Barenboim, Goode, Lewis, Pollini, and I'n not so sure I'd pay about €90.00 (or $100.00) for another set, in FLAC files only.
But my curiosity is growing ... 

If you mean, it is worth it? Is the music making that good? If that is what you mean, then YES.