How satisfied are you with those big box purchases?

[bigshot]

To return to the original purpose of the thread: the biggest box I have is 'The Great EMI Recordings' for Paul Tortelier and I have quite mixed feelings about it. In cases where I have duplicates of the repertoire to directly compare to, either I tend to prefer the other recording or honours are even. In the case of the Faure cello sonatas I actively sought out an alternative, which is a pretty rare thing for me.

I think your comments here reveal exactly why big boxes don't appeal to you... You're collecting repetoire, not performances. If you are looking for "The One And True Recording To Rule All Others", the only way to accomplish that is to pick and choose from individual releases. That way the only thing you have to regret is the filler on the individual CD that doesn't meet the OATRTRAO status.

I've been seriously listening and collecting classical music for over thirty years now. I started out like you, but eventually exhausted the bulk of the classical repetoire. I suppose I could have expanded out into more and more esoteric repetoire, but for some reason, that didn't seem to be a promising direction to take. Luckily, just as I was exhausting the repetoire, my appreciation for different interpretive approaches was ramping up. I don't see much reason for a dozen different recordings if they are all played the same, but there are some key conductors who always seem to have an unique approach. Many of these conductors have been the subject of box sets lately. That keeps me busy.

[North Star]

bigshot, what is esoteric repertoire to you?

[Madiel]

Bigshot, I am undoubtedly prioritising the collection of repertoire over the collection of performances. It seems a no-brainer to me in terms of value/reward: if faced with a choice between buying a recording of a piece I don't have at all, and a second recording of a piece for which I already have a recording I enjoy, it seems obvious that the greater rewards will be had by filling the gap.

It may well be the case that, as time goes by, I become more interested in having alternative performances of works even when I like the performances I have. But I'm 40 years old and have hundreds of classical CDs (never mind the pop ones) and still have a pretty extensive shopping list of repertoire that I would like to hear/have heard in concert but would like to own on disc.  I mean, just off the top of my head...

Haydn - Lots more symphonies to go, and many piano trios and string quartets

Mozart - the piano concertos, the string quartets, the string quintets, the piano trios, the piano quartets

Beethoven - still missing some of the string quartets, the piano trios, other bits and bobs

Schubert - string quintet is a major gap

Chopin - concertante works

Schumann - symphonies, string quartets, more songs

Brahms - symphonies, serenades, songs, choral works

Dvorak - symphonic poems, more symphonies besides no.9, quintets, sextet

Faure - choral works

Sibelius - tone poems

Shostakovich - rest of the symphonies

Mahler - rest of the symphonies

Poulenc - songs, choral works

Holmboe - chamber concertos, requiem for nietzsche


That's just sticking with some of the composers I already know I have an interest in, and it's hardly getting 'esoteric' apart from my inordinate interest in Holmboe.  It takes no account of the on my 'would most like to explore' list: currently Scriabin, Medtner, Szymanowski, Nielsen, Tubin, Taneyev, MacDowell, Tippett, Britten, Prokofiev, Enescu, Martinu, Vaughan Williams, Vine, Magnard, Schoenberg, Villa Lobos and Dutilleux.

I don't know what speed you listen to CDs, but you can get some idea of my rate of listening from my blog (link is under my name). It might not be fast by GMG standards, but I'm not exactly a slouch. I listen to music as often as I can, and when it comes to classical works I may listen to several mid-size ones in a single day. But I'm still a VERY long way from running out of repertoire to buy and listen to.

'Listen to' being crucial. I'm not going to keep snapping up bulk purchases to add to the 'will listen to' pile, either. I've bought up to about 35 CDs in one go through the purchase of half a dozen small boxes, but that's QUITE enough in one go because it would take me several months (maybe half a year) to give it a decent listen.

[Kontrapunctus]

I love this one! (41 CDs and 1 DVD):

[Mookalafalas]

I love this one! (41 CDs and 1 DVD):

Word is out they are re-releasing the big Horowitz original jacket box.  If you don't have it, might be right up your alley...{by the way, that pic is a bit big--I posted one like that and a mod changed it & didn't seem too happy. Might think about using a smaller one...}

[bigshot]

bigshot, what is esoteric repertoire to you?

Works that are representative of particular classical eras, but are by fourth, fifth and sixth tier composers. Also, works that don't represent the greatness of the particular composer.

I find more interest in various interpretations of great works than I do in exploring works that aren't that great. When I had hundreds of CDs, I was interested in repetoire. But now I am in the thousands, and I am focused on interpretation.

[North Star]

Works that are representative of particular classical eras, but are by fourth, fifth and sixth tier composers. Also, works that don't represent the greatness of the particular composer.

I find more interest in various interpretations of great works than I do in exploring works that aren't that great. When I had hundreds of CDs, I was interested in repetoire. But now I am in the thousands, and I am focused on interpretation.

This sounds reasonable. Can you give examples of composers of each tier?

[André]

There are problems both ways (have or have not) with Big Boxes (for me that's over 3 inches thick, or about 15 discs-a-box).

- First, it's unlikely everything in it is something you need or wish to hear. That's a con.
- Second, it's unlikely that once the initial, heavly discounted run is gone, you will ever find it at such ridiculous prices. That's a pro.
- Third, and the completist in me is in a quandary: what if I miss something everybody else will enthuse over in the following years ? That's a pro, too.

The saying goes, 'when in doubt, abstain'. For a compulsive buyer it goes in reverse of course  .

I have to say I smelled the wind a few years ago, sensing there was an economic reason behind the bounty: if and when CDs become extinct, these will become treasure troves. Hold on to them for der life, and they shall return just like the undergoing LP renaissance.

- Wagner: the Decca operas.  The competing DGG compleat Wagner. Fortunately, NONE of these overlap ! Then there is the 'Wagner Vision' box of Bayreuth performances (heartily recommended for the historically inclined). Never has Wagner become more acccessible.

- Puccini: the competing boxes from EMI and Decca. Very interesting case. First, there is a distinct Puccini tradition emanating from both houses. Second, Decca has taken the 'vintage' way: everything is sung by house stalwart and certified puccinian Renata Tebaldi, thereby lending an aura of stylistic and 1950's authenticity to their project. Third, EMI has gone the other way,  their interest spreading over 5 decades of house sound recordings. From Milan to London, Paris or Rome. They have of course been careful not to cannibalize their Callas archives, which of course are the subject of another Big Box.

- Clementi: complete sonatas, capricci and essercizi, played by Pietro Spada on the Arts label. Two volumes, 18 discs. After C.P.E. Bach, Clementi is the next Big Discovery among classical music lovers. There are 3 competing editions on the Brilliant, Hyperion and Naxos  labels. Whether you choose one or another, what's important is to  wet your big toe in the Clementi pond. That's what generations of pianits and composers have done !

- The various Giulini mid-size boxes: in Chicago, in Los Angeles, in Vienna, in pajamas, chose your favourite Carlo ! Not easy: I have the excellent DG Chicago and LA boxes, the EMI box, and was ogling the Vienna one: Great, I thought  ! The DG Rigoletto is in it ! But wait: the gigantic Decca Verdi Box also has it, rendering the DG issue less interesting. Come to think of it, the only thing I'm missing is the Brahms Requiem ! So, there's one Big Box that's not for me. Come to think of it, WHY has the Domingo Verdi Big Box not featured that Giulini Rigoletto, a natural for THAT box, you would think ? Well, Rigoletto is absent from the Domingo Verdi box, but present in both the Decca Verdi and the Giulini in Vienna boxes.

Of course I dind't mention the 70 disc Callas EMI box, itself the compilation of many Callas scavenging missions from the EMI team. It is handily complementented by a nicely appointed box of 26 discs culled from the Jürgen Kesting archives AND from the EMI vaults. About 1/3 of that worthy endeavour is already present in  the EMI box. By the way, if it is available, this is the only Callas box you need to know to understand what the worldwide hullaballoo was all about.

Confused ? The name of the game is to think ahead: will I some day be interested in such material ? And will I find it at a reasonable price when the urge comes ?










[/quote]

[kishnevi]

Andre, you are forgetting the 50CD EMI France Beethoven set!  And considering you are the one who persuaded me to get it!  I am finally in the middle of a first runthrough (it took a while to get to the peak of my listening pile😁  )and while some of it makes a surprising choice (works for mandolin and piano = masterworks?) I owe you a very big thank you.

[Madiel]

I have to say I smelled the wind a few years ago, sensing there was an economic reason behind the bounty: if and when CDs become extinct, these will become treasure troves. Hold on to them for der life, and they shall return just like the undergoing LP renaissance.

I doubt that they will ever go 'extinct' to the extent that LPs supposedly did, because of resources like eBay. It's possible that some future performances will never be available on CD, but anything that makes it onto CD will keep circulating and will be out there if you really want it. The internet has made it possible to shop all over the world in a way that was simply impossible before.

[Kontrapunctus]

Word is out they are re-releasing the big Horowitz original jacket box.  If you don't have it, might be right up your alley...{by the way, that pic is a bit big--I posted one like that and a mod changed it & didn't seem too happy. Might think about using a smaller one...}

I see that it has indeed been re-sized. Hey, doesn't a big box deserve a big picture? 

[Mookalafalas]

Hey, doesn't a big box deserve a big picture? 

  I certainly think so, but, alas, we must bow to greater powers...

[bigshot]

This sounds reasonable. Can you give examples of composers of each tier?

In general, when the only label that chooses to record a composer's work is Naxos, you know the pickin's are getting kinda thin. There may well be worthwhile stuff sprinkled in there, but the further you drill down, the more chaffe there is with the wheat.

[North Star]

In general, when the only label that chooses to record a composer's work is Naxos, you know the pickin's are getting kinda thin. There may well be worthwhile stuff sprinkled in there, but the further you drill down, the more chaffe there is with the wheat.

Fair enough.

[André]

Andre, you are forgetting the 50CD EMI France Beethoven set!  And considering you are the one who persuaded me to get it!  I am finally in the middle of a first runthrough (it took a while to get to the peak of my listening pile😁  )and while some of it makes a surprising choice (works for mandolin and piano = masterworks?) I owe you a very big thank you.

You're absolutely right. I didn't realize it had been such a long time. I myself completed the undertaking just recently - doggedly listening from cd 1 to cd 50. It's one of the best unsung bargains of the whole repertoire, containing as it does unique performances of the sonatas, quartets as well as the violin and cello sonatas + classic if not quite definitive versions of the symphonies and concertos, Fidelio, Missa Solemnis etc . Highly recommended ! 

[Madiel]

In general, when the only label that chooses to record a composer's work is Naxos, you know the pickin's are getting kinda thin. There may well be worthwhile stuff sprinkled in there, but the further you drill down, the more chaffe there is with the wheat.

Funny you should say that, as your earlier comments had reminded of reading many years ago about a conference of record labels/classical recorded music industry types where most of them were saying 'there's nothing left to record any more, only new versions of the old music', and the head of Naxos told everybody just how many composers/works listed in Grove had no recordings.

So Naxos quite deliberately aimed to fill those gaps. And I say, good on 'em. Especially in this day and age when it's possible to sell recordings online from servers and allow anyone who wants to to make up their mind about the music. Even if most people find a composer to be fifth-rate, what does that matter to the listener who discovers for themselves a new favourite gem?

(There's still no recording at all of some of Holmboe's concertos. A Gramphone reviewer was urging someone to record Holmboe's chamber symphonies decades and decades ago, and it still took until 2012 for one to be released.)

[Kontrapunctus]

I haven't heard all 19 discs yet, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the 8 or so that I have played. The performers are all up to the task, and the sound is stunningly clear. These are German organs from Bach's time, not the gigantic French cathedral types, so the bass is not rafter-loosening, but it is satisfactorily powerful.

[bigshot]

Funny you should say that, as your earlier comments had reminded of reading many years ago about a conference of record labels/classical recorded music industry types where most of them were saying 'there's nothing left to record any more, only new versions of the old music', and the head of Naxos told everybody just how many composers/works listed in Grove had no recordings.

So Naxos quite deliberately aimed to fill those gaps. And I say, good on 'em.

Me too. But I listen to many kinds of music, from country and bluegrass to early R&B and Blues to Jazz and Popular music. If all I listened to was classical music, I would probably explore the lesser composers searching for the jewels among the chaffe. But my swath is too broad to drill down that far. I operate on the stuff that rises to the top in every genre and the batting average is very high.

[bigshot]

Just got the Living Stereo 2 box set... lots of duplication with the Reiner and Rubenstein boxes and very short times... most of the CDs are under 40 minutes.

[Mookalafalas]

Just got the Living Stereo 2 box set... lots of duplication with the Reiner and Rubenstein boxes and very short times... most of the CDs are under 40 minutes.

  As I have the Reiner and Rube, I ended up cancelling my order for this one. I'm disappointed but not too surprised that the playing times are so short; when I saw that each Beethoven piano concerto was given its own disc, I was a bit suspicious. 

  The onslaught of big boxes has really slowed down. There was a period there when there seemed to constantly be a new, irresistible one on the shelves, but that doesn't seem to be the case so much anymore...is the most attractive repertoire already "out there"? Has this trend run its course? Or is this a seasonal lull?  Whichever the case, I'm rather relieved. I'm really enjoying catching up!