Author Topic: Box Blather  (Read 315820 times)

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1220 on: August 05, 2022, 01:38:45 PM »
Thanks!
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1221 on: August 05, 2022, 02:01:42 PM »
The Naxos Alsop/Prokofiev box: Jewel-cases or (hopefully) not? Anyone know?
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Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1222 on: August 05, 2022, 06:34:43 PM »
The sound varies pretty significantly. It comes from a number of labels - EMI, Erato, Guild Internationale du Disque, Chandos, Marco Polo, Naxos, etc.

I don't much mind the older stereo sound in recordings like Martinon and Cluytens. Partly that's taste, of course, and partly that's because of a post Spotted Horses made a year or two ago which had a transformative effect on my thinking. (I don't think I've ever properly replied to it or thanked him, so hopefully he sees this.) He talked about how the Cluytens Big Box appealed to him because although contemporary recordings offer great sound, virtuosity, and a variety of conducting choices, the orchestras all sound very similar. Consequently, he said, he was mostly only spending Big Box money on the opportunity to hear completely different, now-extinct orchestral sounds. I thought of that a lot yesterday while listening to the Cluytens Daphnis et Chloé, which really is a time warp to another era - HIP, I guess you could say. There's so, so much woodwind and brass vibrato compared to today, in addition to differences in tone. The sound quality just kind of goes along with that. I did notice some percussion bits which were muffled or concealed in the sound picture, but overall it felt like stepping in a time machine.

There was one recording which made me sit upright and take note of how poor the sound was, and, surprisingly, it was a 1970s stereo recording (the Auric and Milhaud featuring Markevitch). Shrill, blatty, and with trumpet notes that make you wince. This is one of the rare instances in the box where no remastering info whatsoever is listed. Many of the CD debuts are newly gone-over.

I have only listened to one mono selection so far (the Tommasini/Scarlatti arrangement "The Good-Humoured Ladies"). It was fine. More colorful than many mono.

Thanks for the appreciation. I'm always pleasantly surprised when someone takes me seriously. You have described my view pretty well. I've noticed I get less value from yet another technically flawless recording of yet another immaculately executed performance of a familiar work. The old orchestras had performance styles which could be uniquely colorful and engaging, if you can tolerate the audio limitations. I've tried to train myself to imagine what actual sound would be required to produce what I am hearing through those old microphones recorders.

One of the things I admire is the ability of the brass sections of the French Orchestra to create an atmosphere of excitement without playing too loudly, maybe a combination of their instruments and performance style. Markevitch/Lamoreaux is good for this. And a real French French horn section is something to be treasured! :)

Some of the more interesting stuff is from the Mono years, not long after the orchestras had reconstituted themselves after the war. That Cluytens set has a remarkable recording of Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte from 1950 (very prominent horn vibrato) and a barn burning Schumann 4 from the same year (Paris Conservatory and Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Francaise, respectively).

BTW, is the Tommasini/Scarlatti selection the old Desormiere recording on Decca?



How I wish Eloquence would come out with a complete Decca/Paris Conservatory box.

Offline Brian

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1223 on: August 06, 2022, 05:57:51 AM »
Thanks for the appreciation. I'm always pleasantly surprised when someone takes me seriously. You have described my view pretty well. I've noticed I get less value from yet another technically flawless recording of yet another immaculately executed performance of a familiar work. The old orchestras had performance styles which could be uniquely colorful and engaging, if you can tolerate the audio limitations. I've tried to train myself to imagine what actual sound would be required to produce what I am hearing through those old microphones recorders.

One of the things I admire is the ability of the brass sections of the French Orchestra to create an atmosphere of excitement without playing too loudly, maybe a combination of their instruments and performance style. Markevitch/Lamoreaux is good for this. And a real French French horn section is something to be treasured! :)

Some of the more interesting stuff is from the Mono years, not long after the orchestras had reconstituted themselves after the war. That Cluytens set has a remarkable recording of Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte from 1950 (very prominent horn vibrato) and a barn burning Schumann 4 from the same year (Paris Conservatory and Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Francaise, respectively).

BTW, is the Tommasini/Scarlatti selection the old Desormiere recording on Decca?

How I wish Eloquence would come out with a complete Decca/Paris Conservatory box.
I will dig out that Cluytens Schumann 4 soon, thanks. And you convinced me to buy the Cluytens box with that argument, which resulted in me becoming obsessed with his Conservatoire orchestra, the Lamoureux performances under Munch, and other similar stuff. (Really, it should have been an easier/more obvious sell for me since I so dearly love the Czech Philharmonic's specific sound under Ancerl.)

A complete Decca Conservatoire box would be huge but immensely worthwhile.

The Tommasini/Scarlatti selection is with Igor Markevitch and Philharmonia in 1957 mono. The amount of Markevitch in the Ballets box is maybe its best feature, since I didn't pick up the EMI Icon box for him.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1224 on: August 06, 2022, 06:44:29 AM »
Wrong thread, deleted.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 06:47:05 AM by The new erato »

Offline Brian

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1225 on: August 06, 2022, 07:19:13 PM »
Horses - have you gotten the Desormiere Decca complete recordings set on Aussie Eloquence? It's $17 plus shipping at Europa now.

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1226 on: August 07, 2022, 12:20:48 PM »
Horses - have you gotten the Desormiere Decca complete recordings set on Aussie Eloquence? It's $17 plus shipping at Europa now.

I do have that one, although it is a bit underwhelming, only 4 discs and not the most exciting repertoire. He made some recordings for EMI and Capitol Full Dimensional Sound that are a bit more interesting, but perhaps hard to find. It is unfortunate that Desormiere's career was cut short by a neurological condition.

A Decca artist that recorded with the Paris Conservatory but who is largely forgotten is Abert Wolff.

Offline Biffo

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1227 on: August 08, 2022, 05:33:05 AM »
I do have that one, although it is a bit underwhelming, only 4 discs and not the most exciting repertoire. He made some recordings for EMI and Capitol Full Dimensional Sound that are a bit more interesting, but perhaps hard to find. It is unfortunate that Desormiere's career was cut short by a neurological condition.

A Decca artist that recorded with the Paris Conservatory but who is largely forgotten is Abert Wolff.

My introduction to Albert Wolff was a second hand LP of Tchaikovsky 4 with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra - I recently bought the CD version. Decca Eloquence released a couple of twofer albums of his recordings - Overtures in Hi-Fi and Invitation to the Dance, not sure if they are still available. There is also a Testament disc of Massenet plus some of the same overtures as the Eloquence disc.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1228 on: August 08, 2022, 05:44:09 AM »
The only box I wuld be interesed in paying serious money for at this time, would be if Hyperion were too box up their Romantic Piano Concertos series. I think they have passed the 80 mark, what about boxing up the first 60 volumes?

Offline Brian

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1229 on: August 08, 2022, 05:50:38 AM »
The only box I wuld be interesed in paying serious money for at this time, would be if Hyperion were too box up their Romantic Piano Concertos series. I think they have passed the 80 mark, what about boxing up the first 60 volumes?
I wonder how many pages the accompanying book would be  ;D

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1230 on: August 08, 2022, 06:03:35 AM »
The only box I wuld be interesed in paying serious money for at this time, would be if Hyperion were too box up their Romantic Piano Concertos series. I think they have passed the 80 mark, what about boxing up the first 60 volumes?

Yes, however their budget releases also tend have rather limited price reductions. Maybe-maybe it will be around 12 Euros or so per disc ...

Also, I might get their Liszt Complete Piano Music/Howard 2nd hand some time, if found sufficiently inexpensive (since after all, one has a good deal of the piano works already).

Offline Jo498

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1231 on: August 08, 2022, 07:11:48 AM »
I think it more likely that some of the older volumes of the "romantic piano concerto" will be offered for a lower price. As "series" it spans about 150 years from Moscheles and Weber to the mid-20th century, with lots of different pianists, so I don't know if a box would be so attractive.

(Not for me anway; I count the Brilliant box of the older Vox etc. recordings of similar repertoire as a rather bad buy despite having been dirt cheap (around 1-1.50 EUR/disc) and I only got a few of the hyperion series and got rid of at least one of them again, namely Moscheles.)
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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1232 on: August 08, 2022, 07:17:23 AM »
I think it more likely that some of the older volumes of the "romantic piano concerto" will be offered for a lower price. As "series" it spans about 150 years from Moscheles and Weber to the mid-20th century, with lots of different pianists, so I don't know if a box would be so attractive.

(Not for me anway; I count the Brilliant box of the older Vox etc. recordings of similar repertoire as a rather bad buy despite having been dirt cheap (around 1-1.50 EUR/disc) and I only got a few of the hyperion series and got rid of at least one of them again, namely Moscheles.)

I quite like much of the Brilliant-Vox stuff. As for the Hyperion set, there are often other recordings too. I don't know, but maybe I've got 3/4 or 2/3 of those Hyperion works, mostly in other recordings.

The old Vox recording of a single Moscheles concerto with Ponti is good, IMO.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 07:19:39 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1233 on: August 08, 2022, 07:29:06 AM »
The hyperion recording was also pretty good. I think a lot of the music from these series was deservedly (almost) forgotten; I cannot imagine wanting 60 CDs of that stuff, although it's a rather broad range of music from the early 19th until the mid-20th century.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1234 on: August 08, 2022, 08:12:24 AM »
Yes, one can get tired of it, when they get too predictable and un-original for their time. The Ries cycle, which I have on Naxos, is one example of such, often not really so exciting works. Not to mention Field's. On the other hand, for many, exploring the piano concerto genre is how they start to like classical music, and a more or less completist take can be an ambition for some; it is only recently, that I've started to look at newly found, really obscure 19th century works with a little less interest, after decades of otherwise  collecting them ...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 08:21:10 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline LKB

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1235 on: August 08, 2022, 10:31:21 AM »
Yes.

Pity they couldn't come up with the Rozhdestvensky Swan Lake, which used to be an EMI/Melodiya release.
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Offline Que

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1236 on: August 08, 2022, 01:01:54 PM »
Pity they couldn't come up with the Rozhdestvensky Swan Lake, which used to be an EMI/Melodiya release.

A smashing recording!

Offline Madiel

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1237 on: August 09, 2022, 02:55:14 AM »
Pity they couldn't come up with the Rozhdestvensky Swan Lake, which used to be an EMI/Melodiya release.

Well, all the reviews I've seen of the Previn Swan Lake have been highly positive. And pretty much for his Sleeping Beauty which is also in the box.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1238 on: August 09, 2022, 03:55:09 AM »
I like them, but I also bought the Previn Big Box so it is duplicated.

Offline LKB

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #1239 on: August 10, 2022, 06:04:07 PM »
Well, all the reviews I've seen of the Previn Swan Lake have been highly positive. And pretty much for his Sleeping Beauty which is also in the box.

I have the old EMI two-cd ( or is it three? It's been a while... ) set with the three Tchaikovsky ballets conducted by Previn, and l agree that they're all quite good.

However, the Rozhdestvensky is regarded as a legendary recording, and ( imho ) rightly so. It isn't perfect, as the brass blares at times and the oboe soloist is rather horrid. But the violin soloist is outstanding, and Rozhdestvensky's choices throughout are rock-solid.
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