Box Blather

[Brian]

A nice selection. I probably have a lot of that, already. I love Sabine Meyer!
    The Unlikely Box that would be sure-fire with me: Neeme Jarvi. Preferably 120 disks or more...

Even if all the labels can't do all the Neemes, there is surely opportunity for some midsize ones...like all the Chandos Prokofiev recordings, symphonies, concertos, ballets, suites, cantatas, etc., all in one box.

[Spotted Horses]

Even if all the labels can't do all the Neemes, there is surely opportunity for some midsize ones...like all the Chandos Prokofiev recordings, symphonies, concertos, ballets, suites, cantatas, etc., all in one box.

How about "collected recordings conducted by Neeme Jarvi of piece for which there is no other recording." That would encapsulate my listening to Neeme Jarvi.

[Spotted Horses]

I shouldn't be so dismissive of Neeme Jarvi, I found his first Sibelius orchestra music series on BIS to be excellent, and a great introduction to Sibelius. That was before he seemingly became a recoding automation.

[JBS]

Even if all the labels can't do all the Neemes, there is surely opportunity for some midsize ones...like all the Chandos Prokofiev recordings, symphonies, concertos, ballets, suites, cantatas, etc., all in one box.

There is a Chandos set, although it's more of a sampler than a collection

[lordlance]

I shouldn't be so dismissive of Neeme Jarvi, I found his first Sibelius orchestra music series on BIS to be excellent, and a great introduction to Sibelius. That was before he seemingly became a recoding automation.

I don't think folks go to Jarvi Sr. for core repertoire. Prolificacy is not inherently bad. Do you find him worse where competition exists? i.e. Rubinstein PCs, Atterberg symphonies, Barber, Glazunov symphonies.

[Spotted Horses]

I don't think folks go to Jarvi Sr. for core repertoire. Prolificacy is not inherently bad. Do you find him worse where competition exists? i.e. Rubinstein PCs, Atterberg symphonies, Barber, Glazunov symphonies.

The Glazunov Symphony set on Orfeo is from his early period before he became prolific. It is another thing from Neeme that I found rewarding. Were there other cycles at the time? I've not heard any of the others you've mentioned.

[DavidW]

Here are some Jarvi favs of mine:

[Brian]

I might have a more detailed history with Neeme Jarvi than others since I grew up (age 11-15) with Detroit Symphony subscribers for parents while he was their chief conductor. So I actually saw Tubin 5 live years before my first kiss!

Generally he is excellent at music that needs someone to wind it up and let it rip, and poor at music that needs interpretation and emotional depth. And he can generate emotion if it falls in his strengths - i.e. if it can be conveyed through rhythmic force, and without sentimentality.

Thus he is surprisingly OK at things like French light music (which after all is mostly rhythmic), and poor at sentimental romantics like the more picturesque Atterberg works (which are mostly melodic). IIRC his only major Mahler recording is 7 which says something I think.

Re becoming a recording automaton, that's true - Robert von Bahr has written about how Neeme would fly to the sessions, read and annotate the score on the airplane on the way there, and be ready to go just based on his study on the flight.

[lordlance]

I might have a more detailed history with Neeme Jarvi than others since I grew up (age 11-15) with Detroit Symphony subscribers for parents while he was their chief conductor. So I actually saw Tubin 5 live years before my first kiss!

Generally he is excellent at music that needs someone to wind it up and let it rip, and poor at music that needs interpretation and emotional depth. And he can generate emotion if it falls in his strengths - i.e. if it can be conveyed through rhythmic force, and without sentimentality.

Thus he is surprisingly OK at things like French light music (which after all is mostly rhythmic), and poor at sentimental romantics like the more picturesque Atterberg works (which are mostly melodic). IIRC his only major Mahler recording is 7 which says something I think.

Re becoming a recording automaton, that's true - Robert von Bahr has written about how Neeme would fly to the sessions, read and annotate the score on the airplane on the way there, and be ready to go just based on his study on the flight.

But quality being mutually exclusive of quantity is fallacious to me (or that seemed to be the implication.)

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

My two measly cents about Neeme Järvi: I think he is a very good conductor and sometimes, a surprisingly great conductor. He tends to do the best in Nordic and Russian music. His Schmidt cycle on Chandos, though, was very good, but far from a favorite. I've heard some Mahler and Bruckner from him that wasn't up to par. I never liked him in American music and I know he's done a whole series on Chandos. His cycle of the Martinů symphonies still impresses me and as far as complete cycles go, his would still be my favorite. Anyway, I'm surprised that Chandos hasn't released an entire box set of his discography and not just "highlights" or selections from his long career recording for their label. Maybe one day.

[Brian]

Chandos really doesn't release many big (10+) boxes anyway and hasn't done an extensive boxing campaign since the black-framed reissue series with Bridge, Gliere, etc.

I think even just Jarvi Prokofiev alone would be 20+ CDs so maybe a series grouped by composer or era would be appropriate. Or maybe I'm being greedy because I would buy the Prok box on day 1.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

Chandos really doesn't release many big (10+) boxes anyway and hasn't done an extensive boxing campaign since the black-framed reissue series with Bridge, Gliere, etc.

I think even just Jarvi Prokofiev alone would be 20+ CDs so maybe a series grouped by composer or era would be appropriate. Or maybe I'm being greedy because I would buy the Prok box on day 1.

Yeah, this is the second time you mentioned Järvi's Prokofiev possibly getting boxed up.

[atardecer]

I finally obtained the complete Mozart on Brilliant Classics. One of my first observations is I'm quite impressed with Klara Würtz.

[Mookalafalas]

I finally obtained the complete Mozart on Brilliant Classics. One of my first observations is I'm quite impressed with Klara Würtz.

   I had the same experience. She wasn't on my radar til I got that set.

[DavidW]

I finally obtained the complete Mozart on Brilliant Classics. One of my first observations is I'm quite impressed with Klara Würtz.

I think that is the best big, brilliant box ever made! It is highly consistent and satisfying. In particular, I think that the piano sonatas, symphonies, and operas are just not decent; they are good, perhaps even competitive.

[lordlance]

My two measly cents about Neeme Järvi: I think he is a very good conductor and sometimes, a surprisingly great conductor. He tends to do the best in Nordic and Russian music. His Schmidt cycle on Chandos, though, was very good, but far from a favorite. I've heard some Mahler and Bruckner from him that wasn't up to par. I never liked him in American music and I know he's done a whole series on Chandos. His cycle of the Martinů symphonies still impresses me and as far as complete cycles go, his would still be my favorite. Anyway, I'm surprised that Chandos hasn't released an entire box set of his discography and not just "highlights" or selections from his long career recording for their label. Maybe one day.

I... Don't think that's financially feasible. Karajan alone could probably have a 330 disc box set and still sell well. Neeme Jarvi is probably more than that and simply doesn't have the star power.

Not going to happen but it would be nice if Chandos made a comprehensive playlist on streaming services of his oeuvre. Sony uploads its box sets as playlists ont
 Spotify which is rather nifty. Still waiting on the Ormandy 64-83 playlist though... 

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

I... Don't think that's financially feasible. Karajan alone could probably have a 330 disc box set and still sell well. Neeme Jarvi is probably more than that and simply doesn't have the star power.

Not going to happen but it would be nice if Chandos made a comprehensive playlist on streaming services of his oeuvre. Sony uploads its box sets as playlists ont
 Spotify which is rather nifty. Still waiting on the Ormandy 64-83 playlist though...

Yeah, I doubt it'll happen, too, but here's for wishful thinking!

[Mookalafalas]

I got a download of high-light tracks from this box and was blown away by how clear and beautiful they were; it was almost like my whole hi-fi system had been improved...that said, I'm trying to not buy any more big sets (and have been succeeding). I had the Korean issue Giulini big box, which was mostly DG, but this seems much better. I'm quite torn. /

[Brian]

Release date not provided on Amazon.de, I would guess October ish





You should be able to click to expand, or open the image in a new tab to read the contents at full size.

[Brian]

I have now listened to roughly 38 of the 42 CDs from the Michel Beroff box (give or take a few partial listens)...



CDs 1-2: Bach concertos
I could not tolerate these performances. I listened to a two-piano arrangement of the two violin concerto, and hated not just the arrangement but the soft, extremely pre-HIP performances with timid, compliant string playing.

CD 3: Works for the left hand
Superb interpretations of these works. The Bartok and Scriabin are especially good, and then you get to the Chopin-Godowsky arrangements, which are so ridiculously virtuosic that I couldn't believe my ears and certainly couldn't imagine what it would look like, seeing those fingers do those things.

CD 4: Bartok piano sonata, En plein air, etc.
Another great recital and well-varied between "serious" and "folksy" Bartok.

CD 5: Bartok for children
Do people enjoy listening to this music? To me, it's like listening to nursery rhymes for an hour on end. Most of the pieces I liked best had titles like "drinking song" and "bear dance". The second half of the program was somewhat better than the first, with Sonatine ranking highest of all.

CD 6: Brahms Hungarian Dances
Brisk, no-nonsense performances that I very much enjoyed. It's interesting to note a few places where the orchestrators changed the rhythms.

CD 7: Brahms Waltzes and Schumann Variations for piano four-hands
These are not gentle Viennese waltzes. Rhythmically sharp and very "Brahmsian", but not soft salon playing.

CD 8-9: Brahms Violin Sonatas, FAE, Schumann Variations
I am not a great expert in these works but quite enjoyed these performances. Augustin Dumay is rather effusive and "big" in tone, and a Brahms specialist - this is the first of at least three complete sonata recordings from him! The FAE is presented complete, which is a very nice bonus, and there is an early 60s recording of the Schumann variations which is somewhat slower (20 minutes vs 17) than the later one with Collard on CD 7.

CDs 10-13: Solo Debussy
Delicious. Sort of anti-impressionist, cutting through the poetic haze, often virtuoso but never ugly. I heard lots of inner detail I hadn't ever before, even in the Images (my most-listened-to Debussy). Between this and Kocsis, plus some single recitals from Steven Osborne and Kotaro Fukuma, I'm a happy camper  

CD 14: Debussy piano duets
This was my first time listening to Lindaraja, and maybe my first for the Scottish piece. They capture Debussy's full range well, from the cheery Petite Suite to the power and variety of En blanc et noir.

CD 15: Debussy chansons
Gorgeous.

CD 16: Piano duets pops
Pure fun stuff. Sorcerer's Apprentice, Jeux d'enfants, Rapsodie espagnole, and they're willing to go all-in and be maximum fun.

CD 17: Dvorak Slavonic Dances
Like the Brahms Hungarian Dances, these are often faster than I'm familiar with, and the players omit some repeats. Op 72 No 8 is noticeably different from basically any orchestral interpretation. Lots of fun.

CD 18: Liszt Piano Concertos
Wonderful, energetic performances, but the highlight to me is the amazing romp through Liszt's orchestration of Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy. Surprised some record label hasn't done a "Schubert concertos" album of this and the Kabalevsky orchestration of D. 940. (Has anyone arranged a "Schubert violin concerto"?)

CD 19: Liszt piano and orchestra music that is not concertos, including Hungarian Fantasy, Malediction, etc.
I did not know some of these pieces and was hoping to have more top-drawer music like the concertos. They're definitely not all on that level, but they are a lot of fun. The lowkey highlight is actually the Leipzig orchestral accompaniment. Very characterful orchestra that shines even more brightly in the Prokofiev cycle to come.

CDs 20-21: Messiaen Vingt Regards
Hell yes. Good good stuff. Listened to 1-10 and 11-20 in two sessions and was spellbound.

CD 22: Messiaen Eight Preludes and Four Etudes
The preludes are impressionistic early music, very much like late Debussy and with great virtues of playing. The etudes are much tougher, knottier, faster pieces and it's exciting to hear Beroff grapple.

CDs 23-24: Messiaen Quatuor and Turangalila
The Quartet was the first Messiaen I ever heard, back in college, and it very completely scared me off. I've learned to like other Messiaen so revisited it for only the second time ever via this CD. Still don't get it, though the duo portions (cello and piano, violin and piano) are beautifully lyrical.
Have still never listened to Turangalila.

CD 25: Milhaud + Carnival of the Animals
Pure bubbles and fizz. It's nice to hear the pianist show his lighter side out. I do prefer the Carnival of the Animals in the Michel Dalberto box since it follows the original orchestration (with something weird like a glass harmonica?).

CD 26: Mussorgsky
After the obligatory Pictures, there's an enormous selection of miniatures - more than 50 minutes of them! I don't think I've ever heard some of them, and the others I've certainly never heard played this well. This is an example of how a first-rate artist can elevate second-rate music.

CD 27: Prokofiev Visions fugitives, Kabalevsky Piano Sonata No. 2
An early (60s) recording never before released on CD. The Kabalevsky, like the Prokofiev War sonatas, uses a major key signature to conceal emotional complexity.

CDs 28-30: Prokofiev piano and violin sonatas
Piano sonatas 3, 6, and 7 form a violent, intense recital. The later Visions fugitives are full of pensive moments, but I was sad that in the ending of No. 15, the repeated bass note drowns out the other repeated notes a little ways up the keyboard.
Haven't listened to the violin sonatas from this box, as I have "overdosed" recently by hearing them too often.

CDs 31-32: Prokofiev concertos
Again, the Leipzig accompaniments are really amazing. I am wondering how much I've underrated Kurt Masur. When I was much younger I heard some Brahms of his that was dishwater dull, and since then I've really only known him through Mendelssohn. But the orchestral color and individual personalities of this Leipzig orchestra are really remarkable. Love the principal trumpeter, and love the transparency of the ending of No. 3, which is rendered unlike any other. (The cymbal is a hard crash, not a suspended roll, so you can hear the pianist's final solo rhythm.) No. 1 is also virtuoso fireworks and unusually fast. The speed only really hurts in the Overture on Hebrew Themes, where the opening melody and accompaniment sound rather silly and Bugs Bunny.

CD 33: Ravel piano duets
I'd never heard the second Site auriculaire before! It's extremely cool. The other highlight here is the thrilling La valse, which really highlights how in sync Beroff and Collard are even with their rubato. The sense that they might spin out of control at any moment makes it very exciting.

CD 34: Schumann Kreisleriana and Waldszenen
Was a little put off that he omits repeated phrases in Kreisleriana part 1, and my impression of this performance never recovered; it's not at the top. Waldszenen was nice.

CD 35: Schumann Humoresque and Fantasie
Not a lot of stars were recording the Humoresque at the time, I think? It's not a piece I know well but this made me want to know it better. The Fantasie is not one of my favorite performances but there's nothing really wrong with it.

CD 36: Schumann Violin Sonatas Nos 1 and 2
No. 2 is played to the max, a half-hour chock full of drama, and although No. 1 is shorter it's still high Sturm und Drang. Ulf Hoelscher's tone is not the most alluring but his musicality and sense of what to do is impeccable. I wonder if Warner will do a little box for him? Wish they had also done No. 3...

CD 37: R. Strauss and Franck sonatas
Same comments as above. The Franck is not quite as overheated and maximalist as the recent Papavrami on Alpha, nor does it enjoy the perfect vibrato of Grumiaux.

CDs 38-39: Stravinsky solo piano pieces
I do not like the youthful Piano Sonata. It's aggressive and grayish. The miniatures that fill out CD1 are almost all total delights, however.
I listened to the Serenade from CD2 but have listened to too many Petrushkas lately so saving that for later.

CD 40: Stravinsky piano and orchestra works
I did not like Mouvements at all (as a work). However, the other two pieces are high-spirited fun. Ozawa and Paris were an inspired choice to play alongside.

CD 41: Szymanowski violin and piano
Hoelscher's style is really well suited to Szymanowski, who comes off a little less perfumed/voluptuous here and more traditionally virtuoso. That's not a bad thing. The Notturno e tarantella is especially beguiling: it shapeshifts between those two moods in a wonderful way. I also bought the recent Park/Pontinen BIS recital which has the early, more romantic sonata instead of the Paganini caprice arrangements.

CD 42: Bach overture in French style, Beethoven sonatas 30 and 31
The Beethoven sonatas are nothing special and I don't detect the unique maturity that the booklet notes cite. It is of course true that these are mature performances, from the middle of his EMI recording career. But they are exactly as advertised: a bonus to the box, not the main attraction in the box. My favorite individual moment is the final minute of No. 31, where Beroff indulges his virtuoso self in a thrilling, loud, headlong rush to the final chord.
However, the Bach performance is very different. Ice cold, dagger-like, it especially makes an impression in the beginning Overture movement (the Overture has an Overture...Bach was great at naming). For much of this, the two hands seem completely independent of each other, cascading up and down the keys with no relationship, and it's absolutely thrilling. A preposterous display of skill.

Overall:
I will frequently revisit CDs 3, 4, 6, 10-17, 20-22, 31-33, 36, 38 (second half), 41, and the Bach on 42.
I will rarely or never play CDs 1, 2, 5, 34.
Remarkable success rate!