Author Topic: Box Blather  (Read 284559 times)

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Cosi bel do

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #280 on: October 24, 2014, 06:39:03 AM »
Some of Heifetz recordings are great, but usually more from a technically-perfect point of view (I mean, of the violin + the orchestra + the acoustics) than for his personality. I find his playing cold and not enthusiastic or sensitive enough, I don't feel much when hearing Heifetz. Still better than 99% of today's violinists though (among the 1%, I'd count Tetzlaff, Hahn and Ibragimova for sure).

I prefer Heifetz as a violinist to Rubinstein as a pianist, though :D

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #281 on: October 24, 2014, 06:46:25 AM »


I share this mixed feeling about Heifetz. I very much prefer Francescatti, Ferras, Oistrakh, followed by Milstein and Kogan, to speak only of old (ie dead) artists.
By the way, I wish there were a complete Francescatti set on Sony !

Glad I am not alone (knowing well that Heifetz is a giant in the realm of music). I would definitely be interested in Francescatti. What I have heard so far is wonderful!
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #282 on: October 24, 2014, 06:46:40 AM »
Interesting, Ubu. Do you really play a lot from it? Do you find his later stuff as good as his earlier?

   As I mentioned, I only have a couple of his discs with orchestra, and don't play them that much. However, I forgot that I have his chamber box, and like that a lot.  Love even.
     I watched a documentary about him "God's Fiddler", which is very good.  Although it doesn't try to tear him down or anything (far from it), afterwards I found myself a bit prejudiced against him and his music.  He was such an odd bird, in a cold fish sort of way (to shamelessly mix metaphors :D).  In Rubinstein's 2 volumes of autobiography (great reading!) he makes fun of Heifetz some (they were friends).  He says he didn't really love the music enough--but then that is kind of Rubinstein's stock criticism against his "rivals" (he says that several times in regards to Horowitz).

Ha, a friend presented me with the two Rubinstein books last year, but I've not read a page in 'em yet ... I tend to prefer early Heifetz - the concertos with Barbirolli ... as the big sucker was gone, I went for the ICON (terrific!) and the Sony sets (Plays Mozart, Plays Great Violin Concertos). The "Sinfonia concertante" with Primrose is otherworldly! As for the duplications of repertoire between the ICON and the Great Concertos, I prefer(red) the earlier ones in general.
But then I also got the Heifetz/Piatigorsky box and I love all that chamber music!
Also think highly of the Bach solo ... and of the early trio with Rubinstein/Feuermann.

So there's indeed lots of Heifetz I love (though for Beethoven sonatas I tend to go elsewhere, Heifetz' piano players aren't that much to my liking usually.

Btw, the same friend who gave me the Rubinstein books received my four smaller Heifetz boxes after I got the big one ...

Furthermore, anyone calling Heifetz "cold" should check if s/he's still alive himself ;) (not picking any fights, but yeah, Rubinstein is another BIG favourite of mine :))
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #283 on: October 24, 2014, 06:48:53 AM »
   I think I know what  you mean, although I haven't played that much Heifetz.  When he plays the giants, with an awesome orchestra behind him it is good, of course, but I don't generally feel it's him that's making the difference.

   Yes, a giant Hillary Hahn box! However, as controls her own recordings now, she probably won't go that route--not for 20 or 30 years, anyway. 

  By the way, do you have any of the little HM boxes? They are just like the DHM ones (10 discs for about 20 bucks). 
E.G.



  (of course this one is listed as much more here at Amazon).  My shop has a Romantic, a Baroque, and one other.  They have a lot of Herrewegh conducted stuff. I don't have that much of him, but what I have really impresses me a lot.

Yes, those three compilations are wonderful although somewhat eclectic musical journeys.
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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #284 on: October 24, 2014, 06:52:36 AM »
Interesting, Ubu. Do you really play a lot from it? Do you find his later stuff as good as his earlier?

   As I mentioned, I only have a couple of his discs with orchestra, and don't play them that much. However, I forgot that I have his chamber box, and like that a lot.  Love even.
     I watched a documentary about him "God's Fiddler", which is very good.  Although it doesn't try to tear him down or anything (far from it), afterwards I found myself a bit prejudiced against him and his music.  He was such an odd bird, in a cold fish sort of way (to shamelessly mix metaphors :D).  In Rubinstein's 2 volumes of autobiography (great reading!) he makes fun of Heifetz some (they were friends).  He says he didn't really love the music enough--but then that is kind of Rubinstein's stock criticism against his "rivals" (he says that several times in regards to Horowitz).

Ahh, I still have to read those! Thanks for the reminder. I read a few chapters last year (testing the waters) and definitely found them alluring. In my music book pile (I have more book piles that cd piles [believe it or not]) I have a Klemperer biography as well as one on Caruso. On the very top is the new Swafford Beethoven biography.  So much to read......
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #285 on: October 24, 2014, 06:53:39 AM »
Forgot to mention: love most of what I've heard by Hilary Hahn, too! In particular I enjoy her Mendelssohn concerto (which is one of my favourite pieces of music anyway).

The only box I've got is this one, was pretty cheap a couple of years back, filmsy cardboard around five jewel cases w/original booklets - usually with her own comments on the music, which I find a nice touch):


Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #286 on: October 24, 2014, 06:59:29 AM »
Forgot to mention: love most of what I've heard by Hilary Hahn, too! In particular I enjoy her Mendelssohn concerto (which is one of my favourite pieces of music anyway).

The only box I've got is this one, was pretty cheap a couple of years back, filmsy cardboard around five jewel cases w/original booklets - usually with her own comments on the music, which I find a nice touch):




Yes, I love her musicianship. I had the fortune of seeing her perform (in a very small venue) during her early career days (1999). She played Bach's partitas and I will certainly never forget the performance. At the time the experience founded a new respect for both the violin as an instrument and for Bach's intricate music.
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Anna Lappé

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #287 on: October 24, 2014, 07:01:33 AM »
Ha, a friend presented me with the two Rubinstein books last year, but I've not read a page in 'em yet ... I tend to prefer early Heifetz - the concertos with Barbirolli ... as the big sucker was gone, I went for the ICON (terrific!) and the Sony sets (Plays Mozart, Plays Great Violin Concertos). The "Sinfonia concertante" with Primrose is otherworldly! As for the duplications of repertoire between the ICON and the Great Concertos, I prefer(red) the earlier ones in general.
But then I also got the Heifetz/Piatigorsky box and I love all that chamber music!
Also think highly of the Bach solo ... and of the early trio with Rubinstein/Feuermann.

So there's indeed lots of Heifetz I love (though for Beethoven sonatas I tend to go elsewhere, Heifetz' piano players aren't that much to my liking usually.

Btw, the same friend who gave me the Rubinstein books received my four smaller Heifetz boxes after I got the big one ...

Furthermore, anyone calling Heifetz "cold" should check if s/he's still alive himself ;) (not picking any fights, but yeah, Rubinstein is another BIG favourite of mine :))

  Start reading the Rubinstein!! The first volume (especially) is fantastic reading. I love bio/autobiography, and it is simply a gem by any standards.  He knew everybody, and the anecdotes about historical musical figures are priceless--he's a brilliant story teller. I highly recommend it to everybody. Delightful reading, and full of insight into the whole music world (and the early 20th century music scene).

  Ubu, I kind of hate to get the Heifetz big box since I have the Chamber box, which will immediately become redundant. Do you think just getting the two Sony boxes you mentioned would be enough to cover the main ground?
  BTW, Rubinstein is fantastic.  I love everything in that big box...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 07:08:40 AM by Baklavaboy »
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Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #288 on: October 24, 2014, 07:07:17 AM »
Ahh, I still have to read those! Thanks for the reminder. I read a few chapters last year (testing the waters) and definitely found them alluring. In my music book pile (I have more book piles that cd piles [believe it or not]) I have a Klemperer biography as well as one on Caruso. On the very top is the new Swafford Beethoven biography.  So much to read......

  Good to hear! Is your Klemp bio the Heyward? I read the first volume, but the second costs about $150!! I couldn't bring myself to spend that much.  If you have it, let me know. Maybe we can work out some sort of swap... 
    I want the Swafford bio, but recently acquired the Grandaddy Beethoven bio--the Thayer.  If I read the Swafford, I know I'll never read it. (I've read two other, smaller ones).
  We should probably start a music book thread.
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #289 on: October 24, 2014, 07:10:10 AM »
  Start reading the Rubinstein!! The first volume (especially) is fantastic reading. I love bio/autobiography, and it is simply a gem by any standards.  He knew everybody, and the anecdotes about historical musical figures are priceless--he's a brilliant story teller. I highly recommend it to everybody. Delightful reading, and full of insight into the whole music world (and the early 20th century music scene).

  I kind of hate to get the Heifetz big box since I have the Chamber box, which will immediately become redundant. Do you think just getting the two Sony boxes you mentioned would be enough to cover the main ground?
  BTW, Rubinstein is fantastic.  I love everything in that big box...

Tough call on the Heifetz ... as I said, my top favourite was the EMI ICON (not the Great Violin Concertos from Sony/RCA). Really not sure what to say ... I guess you know this, but as I really can't answer your question, it might help to check out the contents in detail:
http://www.goodwinshighend.com/music/classical/Heifetz_Complete/Jascha_Heifetz_Complete_Original_Jacket_Collection.htm

I know Rubinstein is a great story teller - saw a great documentary about him a while ago, that included plenty of interviews (snippets from TV shows etc.) - just had no time to read for leisure in these past months, but now I'm free to do so again - still, the piles are huge (literature, history ... I don't really read all that many books on music, but that might change - got plenty of books on jazz around that I want to read, too).

Edited to add: I knew that friend would love to get the smaller Heifetz sets ... so by buying the big one, I got a few great gifts - not sure if otherwise I'd have jumped for it (ah well yeah, I couldn't have restrained myself, I guess ;))
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Cosi bel do

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #290 on: October 24, 2014, 07:23:36 AM »
oks received my four smaller Heifetz boxes after I got the big one ...

Furthermore, anyone calling Heifetz "cold" should check if s/he's still alive himself ;) (not picking any fights, but yeah, Rubinstein is another BIG favourite of mine :))

Lol. I'm not so much talking about his early recordings (that I quite like) than about all the stereo benchmark remakes.
I understand one can like Rubinstein. I just always find better than him, but he is quite adequate in most of what I know (except later recordings, I was listening to his Schumann concerto with Giulini yesterday, and I definitely find it quite dreadful).

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #291 on: October 24, 2014, 07:23:53 AM »
  Good to hear! Is your Klemp bio the Heyward? I read the first volume, but the second costs about $150!! I couldn't bring myself to spend that much.  If you have it, let me know. Maybe we can work out some sort of swap... 
    I want the Swafford bio, but recently acquired the Grandaddy Beethoven bio--the Thayer.  If I read the Swafford, I know I'll never read it. (I've read two other, smaller ones).
  We should probably start a music book thread.

It is the Heyworth Vol 1. I, too, found the price for vol 2 a bit steep.  :'(   One of these days a copy will show up. Serendipity!!   There has to be an existing music book thread in the maze of the previous threads?  ???


Great tactics with the Thayer biography. I see that the Kindle version is just a dollar!!  :laugh:

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Anna Lappé

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #292 on: October 24, 2014, 07:35:22 AM »
It is the Heyworth Vol 1. I, too, found the price for vol 2 a bit steep.  :'(   One of these days a copy will show up. Serendipity!!   There has to be an existing music book thread in the maze of the previous threads?  ???


Great tactics with the Thayer biography. I see that the Kindle version is just a dollar!!  :laugh:

My acquisition of the Thayer was very "Box Blather" relevant.  I was looking for a used copy of Alfred Einstein's book on Mozart, and hit a collection of about 35(? something like that) music books in a lot on Ebay that included the Einstein, for about $2 a book.  The Thayer was in there along with a lot of other interesting stuff. Instant music library :D

  The big Heifetz box is 185 Euros at Amazon IT :'( This is not a dilemma I want right now. 
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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #293 on: October 24, 2014, 07:37:34 AM »
My acquisition of the Thayer was very "Box Blather" relevant.  I was looking for a used copy of Alfred Einstein's book on Mozart, and hit a collection of about 35(? something like that) music books in a lot on Ebay that included the Einstein, for about $2 a book.  The Thayer was in there along with a lot of other interesting stuff. Instant music library :D

  The big Heifetz box is 185 Euros at Amazon IT :'( This is not a dilemma I want right now.

Why? Have you looked into Ansermet's eyes?     :) :D :laugh:     0:)

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Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #294 on: October 24, 2014, 07:44:39 AM »
Why? Have you looked into Ansermet's eyes?     :) :D :laugh:     0:)

I have! You would not believe the number of different combinations of items I've put in (and than taken out) of the shopping basket at Am IT.  Right now I've got: Kyung-Wha Chung's new "original jacket" set, Ansermet's "French" box, and the Decca Weiner.  Actually, it looks good...
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #295 on: October 24, 2014, 08:11:02 AM »
Glad I am not alone (knowing well that Heifetz is a giant in the realm of music).

You are definitely not alone. I think his star has fallen a lot over the past several decades. The concertos he did for RCA overall just aren't that good (some are better than others of course). Cosi said "cold," I'd say "impatient." What I've heard of his earlier recordings are markedly better, but those are not as widely disseminated, at least stateside.

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #296 on: October 24, 2014, 09:00:34 AM »
You are definitely not alone. I think his star has fallen a lot over the past several decades. The concertos he did for RCA overall just aren't that good (some are better than others of course). Cosi said "cold," I'd say "impatient." What I've heard of his earlier recordings are markedly better, but those are not as widely disseminated, at least stateside.
Not such a fall. Someone polled top violinists a few years ago, and Heifetz still came out on top. I have very mixed feelings myself. Some stuff is top notch. Some is quite bad.  I dislike the Heifetz Piatigorsky box because heifetz is consistently bad I think.

Offline bigshot

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #297 on: October 24, 2014, 09:37:22 AM »
Well, I'll speak up for Heifetz... A lot of people describe him as "cold" and "technical", but every time I hear that old saw, I roll my eyes. I have the Heifetz big box and it is full of technical virtuosity for sure... but it is also packed with passion. Heifetz could phrase like no one else. His violin sings. I think sometime in the distant past, some critic made up the comment about him being all technique and no soul to apologize for another violinist who had lousy technique, and everyone has been repeating it like parrots ever since.

That big Heifetz box is an ocean of wonderful, unique performances. It totally changed my view of more than one violin concerto. I used to be happy with versions by other violinists, but now I don't want to listen to anything buy Heifetz.

The same thing exists with Rubinstein. Everyone says that he is conservative and focused on perfection over expression, but that box puts the lie to that.

Offline king ubu

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #298 on: October 24, 2014, 09:54:41 AM »
Well, I'll speak up for Heifetz... A lot of people describe him as "cold" and "technical", but every time I hear that old saw, I roll my eyes. I have the Heifetz big box and it is full of technical virtuosity for sure... but it is also packed with passion. Heifetz could phrase like no one else. His violin sings. I think sometime in the distant past, some critic made up the comment about him being all technique and no soul to apologize for another violinist who had lousy technique, and everyone has been repeating it like parrots ever since.

That big Heifetz box is an ocean of wonderful, unique performances. It totally changed my view of more than one violin concerto. I used to be happy with versions by other violinists, but now I don't want to listen to anything buy Heifetz.

The same thing exists with Rubinstein. Everyone says that he is conservative and focused on perfection over expression, but that box puts the lie to that.

 :)

(And don't tell 'em about good ol' Szigeti - now there's a box I'd nearly kill to get!)
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline North Star

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #299 on: October 24, 2014, 09:59:08 AM »
:)

(And don't tell 'em about good ol' Szigeti - now there's a box I'd nearly kill to get!)
In other words, there's a box you'd maim to get.  8)
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