sir Malcolm Arnold

Started by Thom, April 12, 2007, 10:28:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: vandermolen on March 21, 2021, 11:33:08 PM
An interesting point although maybe Arnold's 'Peterloo Overture' (1967)  owes something to the massacre scene in Shostakovich's 11th Symphony 'The Year 1905' composed ten years earlier in 1957.

I personally don't hear much/any musical link between Peterloo and The Year 1905 excepting they happen to depict massacres.  Coincidentally, I listened to Peterloo recently and was struck that if you ever needed "proof" that Arnold wrote "Battle in the Air" from Battle of Britain for Walton its in this Overture.  The film score came only a year or so after the overture so no surprise that Arnold's musical palette is exactly from that period but he really does 'lift' some of the musical gestures from his own overture.

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 22, 2021, 12:01:43 AM
I personally don't hear much/any musical link between Peterloo and The Year 1905 excepting they happen to depict massacres.  Coincidentally, I listened to Peterloo recently and was struck that if you ever needed "proof" that Arnold wrote "Battle in the Air" from Battle of Britain for Walton its in this Overture.  The film score came only a year or so after the overture so no surprise that Arnold's musical palette is exactly from that period but he really does 'lift' some of the musical gestures from his own overture.
I only meant the 'massacre music' actually. I'm sure you're right about Arnold and 'Battle in the Air'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Damn, all of this talk about Arnold's music and now I'm going to have to listen to some! He certainly is one of the more distinctive English composers. I need to see if I can find that BBC Music Magazine issue with him on the cover, but I'm not making a 30 min. drive to Barnes & Noble to get it that's for sure.

Daverz

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 24, 2021, 12:33:14 PM
Damn, all of this talk about Arnold's music and now I'm going to have to listen to some! He certainly is one of the more distinctive English composers. I need to see if I can find that BBC Music Magazine issue with him on the cover, but I'm not making a 30 min. drive to Barnes & Noble to get it that's for sure.

I don't think there are many bad Arnold recordings.  For the symphonies, I'd be hard pressed to choose between Handley, Penny and Hickox.  I'd probably have to give the edge to Hickox in those works he was able to get to.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Daverz on March 24, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
I don't think there are many bad Arnold recordings.  For the symphonies, I'd be hard pressed to choose between Handley, Penny and Hickox.  I'd probably have to give the edge to Hickox in those works he was able to get to.

Yes, both Penny and Hickox have done fine work in Arnold. I find Handley less convincing in the symphonies, but rather good in everything else I've heard, but this may be because those other works don't have a lot of recordings.

Roasted Swan

Here's an interesting newspaper photograph from 1962 that I picked up recently (shame about the fold!).  Arnold & Bliss looking at the original manuscript of Holst's The Planets at an exhibition of scores on London's South Bank...

relm1

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 24, 2021, 02:22:35 PM
Here's an interesting newspaper photograph from 1962 that I picked up recently (shame about the fold!).  Arnold & Bliss looking at the original manuscript of Holst's The Planets at an exhibition of scores on London's South Bank...

That's a wonderful photograph!

relm1

#507
Quote from: Daverz on March 24, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
I don't think there are many bad Arnold recordings.  For the symphonies, I'd be hard pressed to choose between Handley, Penny and Hickox.  I'd probably have to give the edge to Hickox in those works he was able to get to.

Your preference should certainly be on any by the composer himself.  He was far and away the best advocate for his music and his interpretations are quite different from others who read the music as notes on a page they are interpreting where he took it as feelings the notes couldn't express.  Unfortunately, he didn't record all the symphonies but maybe two thirds of them.  I'm a yank so don't fully understand the BBC but maybe the BBC has his performances of all the symphonies that might eventually be released (I'm looking at you Lyrita).

Maestro267

For me, the only real disappointment in Arnold's work is that he never wrote a full-length Concerto with the weight of his symphonies. They're predominantly on the short and light side, whether in terms of length or forces.

vandermolen

My favourite recordings:
No.1: Arnold (EMI)
No.2: Arnold (EMI) or Groves (EMI)
No.3: Arnold (Everest)
No.4: Arnold (Lyrita)
No.5: Arnold (EMI), although the recording is not the best IMO - otherwise Handley or Hickox
No.6: Handley (Conifer)
No.7 Handley (Conifer)
No.8 (not too sure)
No.9 (Penny)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

Quote from: Maestro267 on April 02, 2021, 02:44:56 AM
For me, the only real disappointment in Arnold's work is that he never wrote a full-length Concerto with the weight of his symphonies. They're predominantly on the short and light side, whether in terms of length or forces.

But I disagree.  Though brief, his 2 piano concerto (3 hands) is quite epic and his John Field Piano Concerto is symphonic in scope. 

relm1

Quote from: vandermolen on April 02, 2021, 03:34:28 AM
My favourite recordings:
No.1: Arnold (EMI)
No.2: Arnold (EMI) or Groves (EMI)
No.3: Arnold (Everest)
No.4: Arnold (Lyrita)
No.5: Arnold (EMI), although the recording is not the best IMO - otherwise Handley or Hickox
No.6: Handley (Conifer)
No.7 Handley (Conifer)
No.8 (not too sure)
No.9 (Penny)

A respectable list.  I wish Lyrita would release more of his radio broadcasts in cleaned up audio because No. 7 was broadcast and very different from Handley.  Who knows what else is out there that Arnold himself recorded.

vandermolen

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on April 02, 2021, 07:15:45 AM
A respectable list.  I wish Lyrita would release more of his radio broadcasts in cleaned up audio because No. 7 was broadcast and very different from Handley.  Who knows what else is out there that Arnold himself recorded.
The Symphony No.1 conducted by Arnold is quite extraordinary - much slower than other performances, which gives it much more gravitas.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

André

Arnold is slower in everything he recorded: symphonies 1-5, 7 and the overtures (substantial tone poems in all but name). Why is anybody's guess. Other conductors presumably conduct according to the scores' indications, so one would imagine the composer would do the same, but no. And the truth of the matter is that he is substantially more interesting than anybody else (esp. in the overtures and symphonies 3, 4 and 7).

A strange case indeed.

relm1

Quote from: André on April 02, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
Arnold is slower in everything he recorded: symphonies 1-5, 7 and the overtures (substantial tone poems in all but name). Why is anybody's guess. Other conductors presumably conduct according to the scores' indications, so one would imagine the composer would do the same, but no. And the truth of the matter is that he is substantially more interesting than anybody else (esp. in the overtures and symphonies 3, 4 and 7).

A strange case indeed.

Hmm, interesting point.  So if he had conducted No. 9, which as far as I know he never did, but has the longest single ending of his oeuvre, perhaps his ending would be 40 minutes or so.  Fascinating.  Imagine his No. 9 being 70 minutes long.  I think I would be powerfully epic in its pace elevating him to a symphonic titan. 

kyjo

Quote from: relm1 on April 02, 2021, 07:13:19 AM
But I disagree.  Though brief, his 2 piano concerto (3 hands) is quite epic and his John Field Piano Concerto is symphonic in scope.

Agreed, especially in regards to the John Field Fantasy which is an epic, phantasmagoric work. Also his lovely Guitar Concerto is far from insubstantial with a c. 12 minute long slow movement. But yes, most of his concerti tend to be quite brief and are a bit of mixed bag in terms of quality imo. The most disappointing of all is his late Cello Concerto Shakespearean, which shows evidence of his declining mental state late in life...
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

relm1

#517
Quote from: kyjo on April 03, 2021, 10:16:59 AM
Agreed, especially in regards to the John Field Fantasy which is an epic, phantasmagoric work. Also his lovely Guitar Concerto is far from insubstantial with a c. 12 minute long slow movement. But yes, most of his concerti tend to be quite brief and are a bit of mixed bag in terms of quality imo. The most disappointing of all is his late Cello Concerto Shakespearean, which shows evidence of his declining mental state late in life...

Why, what don't you like about his revised Cello Concerto?  I think it is very much Arnold and a very enjoyable work.  It's taught and has many lovely moments showing his love of dance, melody, and drama with hints of darkness and pathos throughout.  Very Arnold.  Why do you consider it "the most disappointing of all"??  >:(

kyjo

Quote from: relm1 on April 03, 2021, 04:12:48 PM
Why, what don't you like about his revised Cello Concerto?  I think it is very much Arnold and a very enjoyable work.  It's taught and has many lovely showing his love of dance, melody, and drama with hints of darkness and pathos throughout.  Very Arnold.  Why do you consider it "the most disappointing of all"??  >:(

I'll have to give it another chance due to your enthusiasm! ;)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Carshot

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 24, 2021, 12:33:14 PM
Damn, all of this talk about Arnold's music and now I'm going to have to listen to some! He certainly is one of the more distinctive English composers. I need to see if I can find that BBC Music Magazine issue with him on the cover, but I'm not making a 30 min. drive to Barnes & Noble to get it that's for sure.

Having just visited the forum for the first time in a while thanks for the heads up about this issue. I have just ordered it today (at £6.99, cover price I think, including postage) from:

https://www.buysubscriptions.com/back-issues/bbc-music-magazine-back-issues