Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison

Started by TheGSMoeller, May 02, 2014, 05:05:52 AM

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Ken B

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 25, 2014, 05:52:17 PM
Here's the results so far, group A could be done, but will wait for the other three to pick up some more scores.
Again, thank you all for participating!  ;D



Group A

Ray         Pim      LisztianWagner      amw
A5           A2         A3                       A1
A2           A3         A2                       A4
A3           A5         A5                       A2
A4           A4         A4                       A5
A6           A6         A6                       A3
A1           A1         A1                       A6


Group B

Jens
B1
B4
B6
B5
B2
B3


Group C

Neal
C3
C2
C6
C5
C1
C4


Group D

Brian     Neal
D5           D3
D3           D5
D2           D2
D1           D6
D6           D4
D4           D1

Tease! Has Sarge voted out Szell or Barbirolli?  >:D

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Ken B on June 25, 2014, 05:57:51 PM
Tease! Has Sarge voted out Szell or Barbirolli?  >:D

Gilbert Kaplan is in the lead.

amw

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 25, 2014, 05:52:17 PM
Here's the results so far, group A could be done, but will wait for the other three to pick up some more scores.
Again, thank you all for participating!  ;D
I'm surprised by how few people voted (also with how little participation there was on Brian's piano comparison)... are blind comparisons losing their allure for GMG?

Brian

Quote from: amw on June 25, 2014, 06:22:26 PM
I'm surprised by how few people voted (also with how little participation there was on Brian's piano comparison)... are blind comparisons losing their allure for GMG?
I'm starting to think the same thing. I was going to do Beethoven's Op. 59 No. 3 after the Bruckner game, but it looks like enthusiasm is waning.

Part of me wants to listen to every other group, but part of me realizes that I ain't got time for that. Maybe could do one at work tomorrow, Greg, if you want to send me Group B or C but with no expectation of a result...

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Ken B on June 25, 2014, 05:57:51 PM
Tease! Has Sarge voted out Szell...?  >:D

I would if I could  ;D ...but the Sixth wasn't in his repertoire. He conducted 3, 7, 8, 9 and the Te Deum but only recorded 3 & 8.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

mc ukrneal

At 15-17 min each, these require 1.5 hours listening time. That could be part of the problem as well. These were never terribly popular to begin with, but I am not sure why.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

amw

That's true. (A1 is ~19 minutes and I listened to it 3 times... that'd be a complete group in most other BCs.)

TheGSMoeller

I understand that this requires a lot of listening time, which is why the deadline has been pushed back. However, if you devoted 15-20 minutes from your daily music listening sessions (one recording a day), and take down notes on your thoughts to reference for when your ready to score the group, then you could easily complete a group in a week.
Just a friendly BC. listening tip  :)

I do hope this one continues to receive scores, I've really been enjoying the comments and am already shocked by some of the positive and negative criticism given to certain recordings.




jlaurson

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 26, 2014, 02:43:02 AM
I understand that this requires a lot of listening time, which is why the deadline has been pushed back. However, if you devoted 15-20 minutes from your daily music listening sessions (one recording a day), and take down notes on your thoughts to reference for when your ready to score the group, then you could easily complete a group in a week.
Just a friendly BC. listening tip  :)

I do hope this one continues to receive scores, I've really been enjoying the comments and am already shocked by some of the positive and negative criticism given to certain recordings.

Gimme another group, like Brian... and I'll see what I can get my ears round.

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: jlaurson on June 26, 2014, 03:34:54 AM
Gimme another group, like Brian... and I'll see what I can get my ears round.

Very cool, Jens. Group C just PM'd to you.
Thanks!  :)

Jo498

As I just joined the forum a few days ago, I missed all these blind comparisons. Would it be possible to receive links to the latest batch even now?
It sounds fascinating, althoug I have to admit that I find the scope extremely ambitious. Especially with whole movements from Bruckner symphonies maybe it would be better to stick to only 8 versions or less.

In any case, I'd be interested to participate in further installments and want to encourage to keep the good work going!
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 25, 2014, 05:52:17 PM
Here's the results so far, group A could be done, but will wait for the other three to pick up some more scores.
Again, thank you all for participating!  ;D



Group A

Ray         Pim      LisztianWagner      amw
A5           A2         A3                       A1
A2           A3         A2                       A4
A3           A5         A5                       A2
A4           A4         A4                       A5
A6           A6         A6                       A3
A1           A1         A1                       A6


I think Cato will still chime in with his results on Group A.  :)

Karl Henning

Aye, Cato has suffered a box breakdown, so he's been incomunicado.  He should be back on line today or tomorrow.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brian

B1
I'm not a big fan of the choice to de-staccato-ize those opening violin rhythms, but otherwise, hardly anything to complain about here. Well-judged pace that's well-stuck-to and an unusually fluid second subject. Almost balletic? The climax around 4:40 is maybe a little underwhelming. Greg, did you edit this file so the artist would be "Chart Pimp"? Or "Part Chimp"? My media player is showing both of those. OH it's because there is an album called Chart Pimp by Part Chimp, and the first track is called "B1", so the software must have assumed... Anyway. I also am not 100% keen on the not 100% commitment of the brass in the final coda; you can hear a couple guys wishing they could take a break. Still, a nice, portable, lightweight account for sure. 6.8/10

B2
Wow, Jens wasn't kidding. This is intimidatingly, broodingly, creepily slow. The second time so far I've heard a clip that's slower than Celibidache. The woodwinds are rather perky about two-and-a-half minutes in, though. Especially forward oboist. The quieter bits in the middle movement are startlingly good, particularly anything involving wind players. Of course, the tempo is much faster here than it was at the start. Why'd they have to go and make the start that slow if the rest isn't? Listening to the insanely slow opening, you'd never expect that the final chord would be so short! Oh well, I would give the first two minutes a 5/10 and the last 15 minutes an 8/10, and mathematically that comes out to 7.6/10.

B3
Holy crap, this opening is fast. This is, like, record-setting fast. Oh, what's with the gigantic slowdown for the second theme? I thought they were going to stick with that superfast tempo the whole way through but instead it's like they came down from a sugar high and want to take a nap. Two minutes in, I've heard enough. I'll listen to the rest, but there is a fine line between flexible conducting and over-the-top conducting. This is over-the-top. 3/10

Okay, time to watch USA v. Germany... the other scores will follow this afternoon!

Sergeant Rock

B2 Very slow initial tempo,  an air of mystery and anticipation firmly established. This can only be one conductor (the forward woodwinds later confirm). This proves my assertion that Bruckner cannot be played too slowly. I love almost everything about this performance (would like a bit more timpani when the first theme is played forté but that's a niggle). The buildup to the recapitulation, the central climax, is thrilling, the swirling strings creating almost unbearable tension before the orchestra explodes. Goosebump producing. The coda is well-balanced, all the contrapuntal strands heard clearly, the final chord delivered like a hammerblow: short and decisive. The overall impression this version delivers is one of inevitability, from first note to last. The parts are just put together well.

B3  The conductor whips this baby out of the gate like it's the Preakness. I thought at first this might be Norrington, but in fact it's even faster!--not over the length of the movement but the introduction and first theme. The initial double forté blast  is poweful, the timpani prominent, the rhythm distinct. I like. With the arrival of the second theme the brakes are appled, slowing things down considerably, but beautifully so. It creates quite a contrast between the two themes. After that I heard and felt nothing terribly interesting. The third theme is pedestrian, having none of the rhythmic thrill those Bruckner third themes are supposed to deliver. The central climax moved me not at all. So, an unusual and promising beginning that goes nowhere interesting. The sound is detailed in a technicolor sort of way, heavy on the brass; the trumpets can be piercing.

B4 A typical Sixth, MOR. Nothing really stands out. I suppose that's a good thing but also a bit boring. The central climax was odd. It just sort of happened with no sense that things were building towards it. Compared to B2 those swirling strings were deeply recessed.  The final chord lingers, outstaying its welcome but then most conductors do it this way.

The rest of the notes to follow along with the rankings.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Ken B

#155
Quote from: Brian on June 26, 2014, 07:37:32 AM
B1

B2
Wow, Jens wasn't kidding. This is intimidatingly, broodingly, creepily slow. The second time so far I've heard a clip that's slower than Celibidache. The woodwinds are rather perky about two-and-a-half minutes in, though. Especially forward oboist. The quieter bits in the middle movement are startlingly good, particularly anything involving wind players. Of course, the tempo is much faster here than it was at the start. Why'd they have to go and make the start that slow if the rest isn't? Listening to the insanely slow opening, you'd never expect that the final chord would be so short! Oh well, I would give the first two minutes a 5/10 and the last 15 minutes an 8/10, and mathematically that comes out to 7.6/10.



OK, now I am curious about B2. Creepy. Can someone post/pm me B2? DONE
Danke sehr

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Ken B on June 26, 2014, 08:06:21 AM
OK, now I am curious about B2. Creepy. Can someone post/pm me B2?
Danke sehr

Check your mail.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"


TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Jo498 on June 26, 2014, 04:05:23 AM
As I just joined the forum a few days ago, I missed all these blind comparisons. Would it be possible to receive links to the latest batch even now?
It sounds fascinating, althoug I have to admit that I find the scope extremely ambitious. Especially with whole movements from Bruckner symphonies maybe it would be better to stick to only 8 versions or less.

In any case, I'd be interested to participate in further installments and want to encourage to keep the good work going!

I can send you the links to one of the groups, it's not too late. And welcome to the forum!



TheGSMoeller

Quote from: karlhenning on June 26, 2014, 05:22:44 AM
Aye, Cato has suffered a box breakdown, so he's been incomunicado.  He should be back on line today or tomorrow.

Cool. Maybe I can get him to do group b or c if he hasn't already listened to A. Group A's results won't change with one more score, the bottom 2 have such low scores at the moment.