Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison

Started by TheGSMoeller, May 02, 2014, 05:05:52 AM

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Cato

And now: D 3!

Brass playing is better than in D 2: their attack is a little soft at times.  After the opening proclamation I find the next sections rushed and perfunctory, as if the conductor is saying "let's get to the loud parts as quickly as we can."  On the other hand, at times the brass seem to be held back, when they should be unleashed.

So, the dynamics in the meditative sections are nicely done, but can go awry suddenly with a somewhat too-fast tempo.  The crescendos are not always on target, and did I hear some interpolated "subito pianos" now and then?!  (Yes! In the central climax.)

The last minutes are excellent!

So a good, but somewhat erratic performance.

So...

D 1
D 3
D 2
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

Quote from: jlaurson on July 16, 2014, 03:56:48 AM
Hehe... I shan't kick myself. The inner voices I complained about were probably the typical haze that Het Concertgebouw puts over orchestras (which can't hear themselves very exactingly on stage). Often, but not always, to great coloring effect.


For Chailly to bite the dust was a surprise!

And now D 4: excellent power and precision in the brass, and clear lines throughout in the orchestra!  But things are sabotaged - again! - by a tempo that is too fast in the quieter sections, making them seem unimportant. 

The crescendos are nearly on the excellent level found in D 1 (the 1960's Eugen Jochum?).

Very nice playing by the brass!  (I detected the slightest burble in a flute after the 12:00 minute mark).  The last minutes are a slam dunk!  An excellent performance throughout.  Just a little too fast for me in the quieter sections.

Soooo...

D 1
D 4
D 3
D 2


"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Cato on July 16, 2014, 03:58:30 AM
And now: D 3!

Brass playing is better than in D 2: their attack is a little soft at times.  After the opening proclamation I find the next sections rushed and perfunctory, as if the conductor is saying "let's get to the loud parts as quickly as we can."  On the other hand, at times the brass seem to be held back, when they should be unleashed.

So, the dynamics in the meditative sections are nicely done, but can go awry suddenly with a somewhat too-fast tempo.  The crescendos are not always on target, and did I hear some interpolated "subito pianos" now and then?!  (Yes! In the central climax.)

The last minutes are excellent!

So a good, but somewhat erratic performance.

So...

D 1
D 3
D 2
And here I wrote, "Though faster than D1 and D2, it never feels rushed." I wonder if I have the same inverse relationship with you as I have with Sarge!
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Cato

Quote from: mc ukrneal on July 16, 2014, 04:30:32 AM
And here I wrote, "Though faster than D1 and D2, it never feels rushed." I wonder if I have the same inverse relationship with you as I have with Sarge!

Ha!  Sarge and I are close in age and in taste!


Mrs. Cato is still sleeping, so... ;)

D 5! 

Great opening, on the level of D 1!  And the recording quality is crystal clear with great bass sound!  I can even hear an echoing resonance in the pizzicato of the basses.

Tempo is just perfect, again like in D 1: and the crescendos are handled well, with one exception.  I am really digging the clarity in the bass sound and everywhere else!  The dynamic range is usually broad.

And then...two "interpretations" to spoil things!  Again a "subito piano" is inserted in the central and final sections!

In the end, a near great performance on the level of D 1, with excellent sound!

Sooo...

D 1
D 5
D 4
D 3
D 2



"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

And now - finally - D 6!

A large echoing hall or a cathedral must be the venue for this recording: great for Bruckner!

The opening is a little ragged in the lower strings, and - again - the tempo after the initial outburst is much too fast for my taste.  And I am hearing occasional noise from chairs or music stands, which is a little distracting.

But there is a good deal of energy in the performance, although in the central climax the brass were rather suddenly restrained.  Elsewhere they were allowed to do their thing.  The last 8 minutes are performed very well, as if the group gained confidence from the first half! 

And only the hint of an illegal subito piano on the last page!

I love the "big-outdoors" resonance of the performance, but there is that noise issue from chairs and music stands.

Sooo...

D 1
D 5
D 4
D 6
D 3
D 2     

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: karlhenning on July 16, 2014, 05:08:05 AM
Cato is an animal!  0:)   8)   :)

OWOOOOH!  To quote Warren Zevon!

So far from what I have heard, the ultimate Bruckner would be either D 1 or D 5 recorded in the hall/cathedral where D 6 took place!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Sergeant Rock

Greg, I'm two-thirds through group D. Need to take a Bruckner break now. I'll finish it tomorrow.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 16, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Greg, I'm two-thirds through group D. Need to take a Bruckner break now. I'll finish it tomorrow.

Sarge

Pace yourself, dude!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 16, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Greg, I'm two-thirds through group D. Need to take a Bruckner break now. I'll finish it tomorrow.

Sarge

We await your decisions with bated breath, and maybe even baited breath in the case of Moonfish!

Now there is a case where the spelling is really important!   :D
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 05:20:44 PM
B6

Georg Tintner, the most polarizing figure on GMG when it comes to Bruckner. He makes headlines with his original recordings of Nos. 2, 3 and 8. But no headlines here, other than C'ya later!



Oh no, Tintner is gone.  I need a sleep relief alternative.  :D


Moonfish

Quote from: Cato on July 16, 2014, 12:22:53 PM
We await your decisions with bated breath, and maybe even baited breath in the case of Moonfish!

Now there is a case where the spelling is really important!   :D

:)

Bruckner barrages bring boisterous bodacious blather!      >:D
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Cato

Quote from: Moonfish on July 16, 2014, 01:29:04 PM
:)

Bruckner barrages bring boisterous bodacious blather!      >:D

Ain't that the truth, brother!   0:)

Anyway, the excitement builds whether we are breathing or not!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

TheGSMoeller

Group D

Brian     Neal        Cato
D5           D3        D1
D3           D5        D5
D2           D2        D4
D1           D6        D6
D6           D4        D3
D4           D1        D2

Current Rankings
D1 - 7 pts
D2 - 6 pts
D3 - 10 pts
D4 - 4 pts
D5 - 13 pts
D6 - 5 pts

D3 and D5 are almost guaranteed a trip to the next round, but the final two spots could easily change hands depending on Sarge's score. I will allow another day to go by after Sarge presents his scores in case there is someone else with D's clips.

Ken B

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2014, 05:17:16 PM
Group D

Brian     Neal        Cato
D5           D3        D1
D3           D5        D5
D2           D2        D4
D1           D6        D6
D6           D4        D3
D4           D1        D2

Current Rankings
D1 - 7 pts
D2 - 6 pts
D3 - 10 pts
D4 - 4 pts
D5 - 13 pts
D6 - 5 pts

D3 and D5 are almost guaranteed a trip to the next round, but the final two spots could easily change hands depending on Sarge's score. I will allow another day to go by after Sarge presents his scores in case there is someone else with D's clips.

Ooooooooooo. This way we get to see which Sarge votes out. The chant of Szell rose from the bleachers

Moonfish

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2014, 05:17:16 PM
Group D

Brian     Neal        Cato
D5           D3        D1
D3           D5        D5
D2           D2        D4
D1           D6        D6
D6           D4        D3
D4           D1        D2

Current Rankings
D1 - 7 pts
D2 - 6 pts
D3 - 10 pts
D4 - 4 pts
D5 - 13 pts
D6 - 5 pts

D3 and D5 are almost guaranteed a trip to the next round, but the final two spots could easily change hands depending on Sarge's score. I will allow another day to go by after Sarge presents his scores in case there is someone else with D's clips.

Drastic variation for D1 !!!!!     ???
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Cato

Quote from: Moonfish on July 16, 2014, 07:14:37 PM
Drastic variation for D1 !!!!!     ???

Yes!

D 5 almost got my #1 spot because of the superior clarity of sound, but then went slightly awry (see below).  D 1 - which I suspect is the Eugen Jochum DGG performance from the 1960's - hits my ears as the practically perfect performance.   8)

But that is the fascinating aspect about human perception!

We shall see what Sarge thinks!   :D
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Sergeant Rock

D1  I recognized this immediately...well, with the first trumpet entry anyway, an unmistakable sound. It was one of my first Bruckner Sixths. The other was B2. Which came first is lost in the fog of time but B2 always ranked higher in my estimation. I  might have to rethink that. I like the vintage sound. Most everything is clear without being spotlit (I mean everything seems upfront, right in your face); impressive sounding low strings.  I have less trouble now with the swift speeds at climactic moments than I used to. The ensemble seems a bit scrappy in places but the excitement carries the day. The coda is glorious and ends properly with a sharp blow (not quite the decisive finality of B2 but close enough).

D2  I know who this is and I'm trying hard not to let that fact influence me. Begins slower than D1 (the slowest I've yet heard in this comparison) and even slower than Celi! So that goes in the plus column. The recording has more depth than D1, which I don't prefer. I hate depth. When I hear an orchestra live from the front row balcony (my preferred seat) or from the front row right in front of the stage (Mrs. Rock's preferred seat), the solo violin doesn't sound closer than the horn in the back row and yet here the horns in this recording occasionally sound distant, at times muffled. Anyway, a small point. The large points are, the performance doesn't move me emotionally and I do not like the way the end is handled: brakes applied, the last chord stretched out. I should give it credit though for some very impressive drums in the central climax and coda. Wow.

D3  Like D2, in its very different way, this also failed to grab me emotionally despite having a fantastic sense of atmosphere and great delicacy in the quieter moments. The performance as a whole is well integrated, the parts mesh well, and yet, paradoxically, it sounds almost un-Brucknerian. I want to hear more seams. I do like the last two and a half minutes very much. I have no idea how I'm going to rank this.

D4  Feels rushed and hectic, even confused in places, most damagingly in the coda.

D5  From the beginning, it seems the perfect Bruckner 6. The sonics are gorgeous, the pace just right, the orchestra accomplished, the conductor knows the score. Yes, perfection...and yet, once again I felt no emotional pull and I'm not sure why. Maybe because there were no surprises?  (It played out exactly the way I thought it would.) Maybe because the climactic moments were marginally underplayed?  Can I downgrade perfection? Watch me  ;)

D6  Not perfect (including orchestral clarity), and yet I finally get an emotional charge. It scores very high on the goosebump meter.  Climaxes are built superbly and really hit home. Not since D1 has the music sounded so alive and thrilling. So thrilling that I can even forgive the conductor ignoring the staccato marking on the final chord. His way works here.

From first to last:

D1
D6
D3
D5
D2
D4
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"