Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison

Started by TheGSMoeller, May 02, 2014, 05:05:52 AM

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TheGSMoeller

#400
Group B
Neal       amw
B1         B1 - 10 pts
B3         B3 - 8 pts
B4         B4 - 6 pts
B2         B2 - 4 pts


Group A
Cato           ChamberNut
A4             A3 - 9 pts. total
A3             A4 - 9 pts. total
A1             A2 - 5 pts. total
A2             A1 - 5 pts. total


TheGSMoeller


Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 25, 2014, 07:46:35 PM
C1 and C3 both had 13 points in the first round.  :'(
So, the tiebreaker for a tiebreaker is going to be which ever recording had more 1st place votes...

In Round 1 the recording now known as C1 received one 1st place vote, and another one here in Round 2.
In Round 1 the recording now known as C3 received two 1st place votes, and another one here in Round 2,

which means that C1 will be eliminated along with C2.
C3 and C4 survive! 

Wow, this was closer than the 2000 Florida vote count!  ;D

Brian

Can you please also let us know who they were in the first round? If I liked it in the first, I'd seriously contemplate acquiring Barenboim.

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Brian on August 26, 2014, 04:40:43 AM
Can you please also let us know who they were in the first round? If I liked it in the first, I'd seriously contemplate acquiring Barenboim.

Barenboim was B4/C2
Wand/Munich was B5/C1

Sergeant Rock

#405
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 26, 2014, 07:13:59 AM
Wand/Munich was B5/C1

Surprising, because I don't care for his Kölner RSO Sixth (the one in the RCA box), but I really liked this Munich first movement.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

jlaurson

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 26, 2014, 07:13:59 AM
Barenboim was B4/C2
Wand/Munich was B5/C1

Not liking Wand/Munich that much blind gels with my never quite getting into those recordings when I was listening to them knowingly. Despite being a Wand disciple and certainly positively inclined toward the Munich Philharmonic... esp. in matters Bruckner. Funny how I found the first movement finger-print heavy, but the second a leave-it-alone kind of approach. Rarely do I find Wand performances of anything fingerprint-heavy.

Not surprised, in retrospect, that B4/C2 was Barenboim...

Heard a very fine B7 last night, with Eschenbach and the Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra. Preceded by premiere of Rihm's first proper (nominally second) Piano Concerto which was a Debussy-Chopin-Rihm dream of a work. Will get lots of play on tour with the GMYO and then the NSO in Washington.


Ken B

Quote from: Brian on August 26, 2014, 04:40:43 AM
Can you please also let us know who they were in the first round? If I liked it in the first, I'd seriously contemplate acquiring Barenboim.
I am sure you'd like it Brian. I had it, was not impressed, and sold it!  :laugh:


TheGSMoeller

So it was the 6th that Muti butchered. That's a shame, perhaps he'll still win this comparison 
:o  ;D

mc ukrneal

Where are we on this? Do you need more votes?
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 04, 2014, 02:17:37 AM
Where are we on this? Do you need more votes?

Yes, I've sent out some A and B links but haven't seen anything yet. I'll be happy with three scores for these final groups to move on. Have had some no shows but I know this was a daunting task with a lot of listening.

I may change the format, was going to have third round be the Scherzo and also combine scores from previous rounds, but since we have uneven number of scores for the groups I was thinking of having third round be the Finale and then four from there move on to final which will be entire piece.

mc ukrneal

I might be able to do A tomorrow if you wanted to close that one. I did B, so no help there.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Moonfish

I will get my act together and finish A tonight!   8)  Been busy busy busy.....
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

TheGSMoeller

Thank you, Neal and Peter!

Peter, have you already started on Group A? If not let me know I'll send you B instead, that way Neal can do A and you have B and we close round 2!

Moonfish

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 04, 2014, 07:22:34 AM
Thank you, Neal and Peter!

Peter, have you already started on Group A? If not let me know I'll send you B instead, that way Neal can do A and you have B and we close round 2!

Yes, I listened to all the A's when I got them from you, but then I decided to let them ferment in my mind. However, I have been distracted by other things since then. Just got all the B's so I will do those instead so you can synchronize with Neal.   :)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

mc ukrneal

#416
A Group

A1 - Starts too fast with too little mystery, but the sound impact is good. It's just a little too jolly for me at the beginning. But after that, it is really very good.  I think it ultimately just feels a bit rushed at times (and you can feel it in some unison on ocassion). The middle crescendo is handled well considering the speed. There is a feeling of breathless excitement with this one though (which works better in some parts better than others). Ranking: 2.

A2 - A beautiful start with a bit of darkness and the woodwinds sound beautiful. It could have a hair more detail, but really hard to fault this one. The middle crescendo is also nicely done. That silence before the middle crescendo is brilliantly done (sometimes conductors don't use those silences as well as they should). I think ultimately I would have liked the brass to have bit more oompf at times. Ranking: 1.

A3 - Slower yet, but a rich sound and just the right amount of darkness. Didn't like woodwinds, which seemed a bit too staccato and not nuanced enough in their phrasing (and they are ocassionally hard to hear over the rest of the orchestra). Although I have some issues with this one, it's actually not bad at all. Ranking 3

A4 - Nicely mysterious and beautiful in sound, although the woodwinds could have been stronger. Brass sometimes seem out of tune (and ocassionally lack weight). But those strings! And the crescendo is good, but not as good as some others. I really would not want to hear that opening over and over though, and with things so close in this group, it's the deal breaker for this one.  Ranking: 4

Wow - tough group all around, but A4 has that disappointing opening - a deal breaker. A4 was my least favorite for sure, so we can get that one out of the way. A3 is nice, but I think the phrasing is sometimes distracting, so that is third. That leaves A1 and A2 (overly fast, but exciting VS traditional goodness, but perhaps lacking the very thing that makes A1 so exciting). I really want to hear both of these further on, but with Cato in the group, I know he must have chosen A4 or A3! Which means I may only have a chance with my #1 choice. I think this movement needs some darkness/angst/mystery and I think A2 has more of that, so will go with A2.

Final order: A2, A1, A3, A4
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

mc ukrneal

Figures - I am often the odd man out in my groups. Moonfish - maybe you can vote in both groups?!?!?! :)

Did I have Cato pegged or what!?!  :-*
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Moonfish on September 04, 2014, 10:49:38 PM
Yes, I listened to all the A's when I got them from you, but then I decided to let them ferment in my mind. However, I have been distracted by other things since then. Just got all the B's so I will do those instead so you can synchronize with Neal.   :)

You can post both scores if you remember A.


And thank you, Neal, for the scores.

Moonfish

My scores for Group B:

B1
Tempo a bit too slow. The instruments seem a bit undefined, but builds pretty well into the initial crescendo. Still, the pace is too slow for me and the orchestra seems hesitant.  Slow, slow, slow, slow.  Lacking in the sublime. It has clarity, but not the life I normally sense in Bruckner. I found myself waiting and the music wanting. I feel as if the orchestra just is playing and not truly partaking in the mystery of Bruckner's 6th symphony.  The slow pace definitely made the adagio less approachable from my perspective. I have a feeling of that this could be Celibidache's rendition of Bruckner 6?  The individualistic approach taken is of course a valid one, and comes across a bit better in the central build-up (@13min). Alas, at that point I was losing interest in the performance.  The slow phrasing made it find its own angles of power and mystery.  I found myself appreciating the take on Bruckner, but longed for the expected oscillation.  Beautifully performed, but at a too slow pace.  Impressive that the rendition held up at the slow approach in a live performance.

B2
Slow, but the phrasing and build-ups are coming along a bit better compared to B1. Regardless, slow pace is dominating here.  It seems as if slow is a common approach in the adagio for many conductors.  I have similar impressions as B1. Slow unfolding in an attempt to find a unique clarity and grace.  It is well played and comes across as beautiful and pretty rather than full of wonder and mystery.  This rendition seems a bit erratic in terms of tempos and phrasing. It picks up nicely in the middle section, but there I sense a lack of harmony and synchronicity in terms of the orchestra's playing. It seems off.

B3
The instruments have character & personality from the very beginning as the crescendo builds. Wonderful start.  Haunting in its phrasing by 3min.  A bit more hesitant. Definitely more mystery and fulfillment within this performance. Its threads blend much better than B1/B2.  @8 I find that I really like it as I sense it coming alive and fulfill its promise. Great peaks at 930 with horn and strings bringing out a full peak with strength and at a good pace. The end is delicately phrased. Seems like a finalist to me.

B4
Colorful with great pacing building well into the initial peak.  The orchestra seemed hesitant at times with instrumental solos that sounded off.  The center peak is polished but lacks in mystery and grace.  The orchestra seems to not always reach its full potential in harmony and tend to not transcend into the mystery and grace of Bruckner.

My top pick in this group is easily B3.
The slow pace and irregular orchestra places B2 in the last spot. 
I had a harder time deciding between B1 and B4 since I am not a fan of slow pacing in Bruckner (especially a prolonged one). B1 was a bit too slow for me. At the same time B4 was not played with the ability I expect. The tempo was fine, but it did not come across well [especially the strings).


My Final Ranking
B3 > B1 > B4  > B2


Peter
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé