Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison

Started by TheGSMoeller, May 02, 2014, 05:05:52 AM

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TheGSMoeller

 >:D No more X votes, I'll reveal the eliminated soon  $:)

TheGSMoeller

Group X
ChamberNut:  X4, X1, X2, X3
Sarge: X4, X1, X2, X3
Brian:  X2, X1-X4 ,X3
amw: X2, X4, X1, X3

X1 = 10.5 pts - eliminated
X2 = 12 pts
X3 = 4 pts - eliminated
x4 = 13.5 pts

Brian never gave me his tie breaker (I think) so I awarded 2.5 pts to each X1 and X4, the placing of those two wouldn't change either way.

TheGSMoeller

Group X - Round 3 Eliminations

C2/B3 – X1 - DOHNANYI/CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA








B1/C4 – X3 - ESCHENBACH/LONDON PHILHARMONIC - with an Adagio that scored the most points in Round 2...



Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

TheGSMoeller

The Finals will begin in a few days.

4 recordings.
4 conductors.
4 orchestras.
Only 1 will survive.

(was that too dramatic?) Who wants in? Send me a PM or post here if you want to join, those who participated in the previous round will automatically get links.

Ken B

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 12, 2014, 04:44:12 PM
:(

Sarge

I looked at the numbers. We cannot blame this on you Sarge.  I tried, believe me.  8)

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 12, 2014, 04:44:12 PM
:(

Sarge

I know, it's a good one. If only I used all 4 of Mehta's Bruckner 6th recordings then Dohnanyi could have made the finals.  ;D

Brian

#567
Onto the Amazon wishlist goes Dohnanyi! And onto tomorrow's NML workplace listening goes Eschenbach. I'll use it as my warmup for these super exciting finals!

By the way, Hurwitz rated the earlier Eschenbach/Houston SO a 10/10. "First, listen to the sonority he draws from the Houston Symphony: rich, dark, built from the basses up, the brass never blasting or covering the strings, and nicely differentiated between instrumental groups. This is, in short, a true "German" sound....Aside from a wonderfully grave, intense Adagio, it's not especially slow, and yet never sounds hurried or pushed. Tempos move with natural aptness. Eschenbach's transitions between sections, as well as his moments of interpretive "point making", are always well timed and, even when fairly extreme, convincingly carried off. Passages such as the first movement coda possess a serene majesty that once heard reveal exactly what Bruckner must have intended. Eschenbach's handling of the finale's second subject is especially noteworthy. Although this music is often derided, even by Bruckner specialists (such as Tintner and Jochum), Eschenbach demonstrates that it has its own points to make when given room to breathe. He perfectly conveys the sense of something mysterious or sacred breaking through the superficially trivial surface."

amw

The finalists, as of round 2: A1, A3, B1, C3

The finalists, as of round 1: B2, C5, D3, D6

Interestingly it seems as though all of the recordings that received the highest ratings in round 1—and half of those that received the highest ratings in round 2—have now been eliminated. A3 and B1 in round 2, which led their respective groups, seem to be still in the running.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 04:42:26 PM
Group X - Round 3 Eliminations

C2/B3 – X1 - DOHNANYI/CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA



Sad, but making it this far is something of an accomplishment, right? It's enough validation for me since I'm fast becoming a huge fan of Dohnanyi's near-cycle.


 
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 12, 2014, 07:09:52 PM
Sad, but making it this far is something of an accomplishment, right? It's enough validation for me since I'm fast becoming a huge fan of Dohnanyi's near-cycle.




It is an accomplishment, DD. Considering that names like Chailly, Karajan, Blomstedt and Maazel were gone in Round 1!  :o  ;D

And Dohnanyi's near-cycle is great, including one of the best 4th's I've ever heard.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
It is an accomplishment, DD. Considering that names like Chailly, Karajan, Blomstedt and Maazel were gone in Round 1!  :o  ;D

:D Ah, I feel better now.

QuoteAnd Dohnanyi's near-cycle is great, including one of the best 4th's I've ever heard.

Oh, I don't have his 4th! Better remedy that. Any idea what his newer 4th with the Philharmonia is like?

Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
And Dohnanyi's near-cycle is great, including one of the best 4th's I've ever heard.

And my favorite Fifth.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: amw on October 12, 2014, 05:42:12 PM
The finalists, as of round 2: A1, A3, B1, C3

The finalists, as of round 1: B2, C5, D3, D6

Interestingly it seems as though all of the recordings that received the highest ratings in round 1...have now been eliminated.

No quite. B2 is still alive as you noted. B2 tied with B5 in most points awarded, and B2 received more first place votes.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 07:40:00 AM


Group B

Jens    Brian     Drosera   Sarge
B1       B2         B5          B2
B4       B4         B6          B5
B6       B1         B4          B1
B5       B5         B2          B3
B2       B6         B3          B4
B3       B3         B1          B6



Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 13, 2014, 03:44:20 AM
And my favorite Fifth.

Sarge

It's a good one as well. I didn't know its your favorite. I have a difficult time choosing just one 5th, there are elements of many recordings that I find to be perfect. Like the coda, start with Barenboim/Berlin and but his super-charged coda, it's powerful, I love the energy it creates. Then add Skrowaczewski's octave higher re-scoring of the horns, and then Russell-Davies' tempo slowdown when the timpani roll begins until the final orchestral hit.
Perfect!  ;D

Brian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 04:42:26 PM
B1/C4 – X3 - ESCHENBACH/LONDON PHILHARMONIC - with an Adagio that scored the most points in Round 2...




Just listened to this in full. The adagio is indeed beautiful, almost Celibidachean in its scope, deep breaths, and lyrical flow. The last 5-6 minutes in particular are utter perfection. Eschenbach figures out how to keep this "light" - that is, not inconsequential, but beautiful without being heavy-handed or soggy or overly serious.

On the other hand, that same lightness visits the other movements a bit like a plague. It's a remarkably consistent interpretation, but I'm all about contrast rather than consistency when I listen. The outer movements just need more snap and firepower; the first, in particular, is weirdly soft and quiet for Bruckner Six. And of course there are both codas, with long final chords and underwhelming brass. The same qualities which make the adagio great make the overall recording below average. Question is, will we find a finalist who has the best of both worlds?

P.S. The LPO's weird insistence on a little star being Photoshopped into every album cover is here more subtle than usual.

Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 04:42:26 PM
Group X - Round 3 Eliminations

C2/B3 – X1 - DOHNANYI/CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA



I had no part in this.   :-X :'(

Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 11, 2014, 07:59:31 PM
Group Y Eliminations.


Y1
Haitink - Staatskapelle Dresden (A5/D1)







Y2
Stein - Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (A2/D4)



These were respectively, my number 1 and 2 ranked in first round Group A.  :'(

TheGSMoeller

Thanks for the comments, Brian. "A remarkably consistent interpretation" is a perfect description, but whether or not Bruckner's 6th requires that consistency from movement to movement is a good debate, and one that seems to have been answered by this elimination.

And for the record, Nagano's finale would have rocked it in Round 3!  >:D


Quote from: ChamberNut on October 13, 2014, 02:09:55 PM
I had no part in this.   :-X :'(

It's like a funeral for Dohnanyi on this thread, how can we possibly go on?  :'(  ;)

Ken B

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 13, 2014, 02:09:55 PM
I had no part in this.   :-X :'(
Well if you and Sarge had both placed it one slot higher ... You could have overcome amw's  semming dictatorial power >:D