Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)

Started by Bunny, April 12, 2007, 10:40:31 AM

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Mozart

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2009, 11:48:51 AM
Is that the Sofronitzky set?


8)


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Listening to:
Beethoven - No 8 Piano Sonata in C minor 'Pathetique' Op.13

Yepp
"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
- Amadeus 6:26

Opus106

Related to that son-in-law of Scriabin in any way?
Regards,
Navneeth

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: opus67 on May 17, 2009, 12:05:56 PM
Related to that son-in-law of Scriabin in any way?


Daughter, IIRC.

8)


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Listening to:
Belder, Cembalo - BWV 691 Choral for Cembalo "Wer nur den lieben Gott lässt walten"
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Antoine Marchand

Any idea about this recording?

Mozart - Violin Concertos
Performer:  Johannes Leertouwer (Violin)
Conductor: Johannes Leertouwer
Ensemble: La Borea Amsterdam
Label: Challenge, DDD, 2006
Studio/Live: Studio
2 CDs

FideLeo

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 17, 2009, 03:17:33 PM
Any idea about this recording?

Mozart - Violin Concertos
Performer:  Johannes Leertouwer (Violin)
Conductor: Johannes Leertouwer
Ensemble: La Borea Amsterdam
Label: Challenge, DDD, 2006
Studio/Live: Studio
2 CDs


I have it... to me all is done with propriety, including the liner notes. 
I do find that Burggen/Zehetmair has more fresh ideas about the
music though.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

FideLeo

#165
Quote from: opus67 on May 17, 2009, 05:45:03 AM
Thanks. :)

FYI they never recorded K. 467, 491, 503 and 595.   I find the Sofronitzky set unevenly
produced with sometimes puzzling balances between horns, woodwinds and strings.  The soloist's
own cadenzas (I don't think she uses any of Mozart's own ones even where they are available) are
quite short and sound a bit perfunctory to me. 
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: traverso on May 17, 2009, 09:20:29 PM
I have it... to me all is done with propriety, including the liner notes. 
I do find that Burggen/Zehetmair has more fresh ideas about the
music though.

Thanks, traverso.

My opinion about Brüggen/Zehetmair is the best too, although I have just one disc.

BTW, do you know the Terakado/Kuijken set?

FideLeo

#167
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 17, 2009, 09:56:54 PM
Thanks, traverso.

My opinion about Brüggen/Zehetmair is the best too, although I have just one disc.

BTW, do you know the Terakado/Kuijken set?

The Brüggen/Zehetmair recordings were released only as a set (on Glossa, mentioned above) --
how did you manage to get just half of it?  :o

I have access to the Terakado/Kuijken set but have not listened to the performances thoroughly. 
Very rough impression is that, stylistically, they seem to be in the same camp as the Leertrouwer,
but the execution isn't as smooth.  In other words, those who like the Mozart concertos as musical
bouquets or bonbons would possibly favour the set from Challenge Classics quite a bit.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: traverso on May 18, 2009, 12:10:11 AM
The Brüggen/Zehetmair recordings were released only as a set (on Glossa, mentioned above) --
how did you manage to get just half of it?  :o


Well, I have a disc entitled Obras para violín y Orquesta, number 13th in an Anniversary edition of the "Mozart Year":

W.A. Mozart Obras para violin y orquesta (Works for Violin and Orchestra)
Thomas Zehetmair, violín y dirección (violin and direction)
Orquesta del Siglo XVIII (Orchestra of the XVIII Century)
Frans Brüggen
K. 207: Remy Baudet, solista (soloist)
K. 218 y K. 219: Marc Destrubé, solista (soloist)

Lugar y fecha de grabación (Recording location and recording dates):
K. 207: Curitiba, Brasil, 29 a 30 de junio de 2002
K. 218 y K. 219: Utrecht, Holanda, 28 a 29 de septiembre de 2000

Grabación y producción (Recording and production):
Studio van Schuppen

Edición original (Original Edition):
Grabación inédita licenciada a través de Glossa Music
(Unedited recording licensed by Glossa Music)


FideLeo



What's unique with this recording that Vesselinova used an Andre Stein copy, which sounds quite different from Anton Walter's much used in today's HIP Mozart recordings (with a few exceptions such as Robert Levin's one volume).  Favoured by the composer himself until mid-1780s, Stein's design may be most ideal for M's pre- and early-Viennese sonatas. 
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Elgarian

May I ask a naive, off-topic (but only marginally off-topic) question?

Given that I was recently blown away by the Immerseel Beethoven set (Beethoven on a motorbike instead of Beethoven in a family car), is there any obvious, rational reason, other than my own lack of Mozartian sensibility, why the Pinnock boxed set of Mozart symphonies made no impact on me at all when I bought it a couple of years ago? And still makes no impact, today?

I'm content to continue to accept that when it comes to Mozart I'm a completely inadequate, hopeless listener, whether listening to HIP, or not. But if it turned out that Pinnock's Mozart set is as deadly dull as Colin Davis's RCA Sibelius set, I'd like to know, because it might mean there was some hope left.

DavidW

Pinnock is a very conservative conductor.  His Mozart is uninvolving, it's PI but not truly HIP. ;D

When I switched to Mackerras, I was discovering HIP on modern instruments and his cycle is MUCH more involving.  Check it out, you'll love it! :)

Brian

Quote from: Elgarian on July 31, 2009, 07:02:58 AM
May I ask a naive, off-topic (but only marginally off-topic) question?

Given that I was recently blown away by the Immerseel Beethoven set (Beethoven on a motorbike instead of Beethoven in a family car), is there any obvious, rational reason, other than my own lack of Mozartian sensibility, why the Pinnock boxed set of Mozart symphonies made no impact on me at all when I bought it a couple of years ago? And still makes no impact, today?

I'm content to continue to accept that when it comes to Mozart I'm a completely inadequate, hopeless listener, whether listening to HIP, or not. But if it turned out that Pinnock's Mozart set is as deadly dull as Colin Davis's RCA Sibelius set, I'd like to know, because it might mean there was some hope left.
David W. offers great advice. Or you could find the single disc of Rene Jacobs and the Freiburg Baroque Orchestra playing Mozart's Symphonies 38 and 41. HIP through and through and boldly so - my favorite Mozart album, too. :) (Well, at least as far as symphonies go.)

If that disc leaves you cold, I'll eat my hat!

George

Quote from: Elgarian on July 31, 2009, 07:02:58 AM
May I ask a naive, off-topic (but only marginally off-topic) question?

Given that I was recently blown away by the Immerseel Beethoven set (Beethoven on a motorbike instead of Beethoven in a family car), is there any obvious, rational reason, other than my own lack of Mozartian sensibility, why the Pinnock boxed set of Mozart symphonies made no impact on me at all when I bought it a couple of years ago? And still makes no impact, today?

I'm content to continue to accept that when it comes to Mozart I'm a completely inadequate, hopeless listener, whether listening to HIP, or not. But if it turned out that Pinnock's Mozart set is as deadly dull as Colin Davis's RCA Sibelius set, I'd like to know, because it might mean there was some hope left.

As much as I love Mozart and multiple interpretations of his music, I find that that the symphonies are difficult to find in performances that I enjoy. If only Szell had recorded more Mozart.... :-[

*quickly shuts up so as not to upset the HIPsters*

On second thought maybe I should try that Jacobs CD.  8)

jlaurson

Quote from: George on July 31, 2009, 07:40:13 AM
As much as I love Mozart and multiple interpretations of his music, I find that that the symphonies are difficult to find in performances that I enjoy. If only Szell had recorded more Mozart.... :-[

*quickly shuts up so as not to upset the HIPsters*

On second thought maybe I should try that Jacobs CD.  8)

psssssssssst. sshhhhhhhhhhh. [ 8) hushed whisper:] George... over here: [conspirative signal] Want some truly excellent, superbly played, and always exciting Mozart? Krips is the man! Now let's begone, before the HIPster Police arrest us.  $:) (Oh, and yes, that Jacobs CD is very nice--and Mackerras' Mozart is superb, too. But it ain't no Krips.)

DavidW

Quote from: George on July 31, 2009, 07:40:13 AM
As much as I love Mozart and multiple interpretations of his music, I find that that the symphonies are difficult to find in performances that I enjoy. If only Szell had recorded more Mozart.... :-[

*quickly shuts up so as not to upset the HIPsters*

On second thought maybe I should try that Jacobs CD.  8)

Well there are not that many mature, late symphonies.  Krips, Walter, Vegh, Kubelik all give more traditional performances that you might find stirring, I think with just one or two more cds to compliment Szell you would have all the great ones, and you can leave the early works to us crazed Mozart fanatics! ;D

Lethevich

I also don't "get" Pinnock's Mozart. His Haydn is better, but there is less competition in this field. I second Mackerras as a recommendation, but perhaps sample a lot of single discs by different performers and see which take grabs you.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Elgarian

Quote from: Que on July 31, 2009, 08:03:40 AM
Try Van Immerseel's Mozart, very good! :)

Given my experience with the Beethoven, that certainly makes a lot of sense.


Thanks to everyone who's responded here. I expected to take some flak along the lines of 'Pinnock is the tops and you need new ears', but from Lethe's comment ('I also don't "get" Pinnock's Mozart'), it seems that maybe, maybe, there really is some Mozartian hope left for me yet.

I'm reluctant to invest in Mackerras's Mozart, if only because it was the jolt I experienced on moving from Mackerras's Beethoven to Immerseel's that generated all this new excitement; and one thing that that experience taught me, loud and clear, is that I don't want modern instruments in this area, even with informed performance. I think Immerseel is the obvious way to go next. The important thing is that between you, you've persuaded me that there really is somewhere else worth going.


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Elgarian on July 31, 2009, 01:14:20 PM
Given my experience with the Beethoven, that certainly makes a lot of sense.


Thanks to everyone who's responded here. I expected to take some flak along the lines of 'Pinnock is the tops and you need new ears', but from Lethe's comment ('I also don't "get" Pinnock's Mozart'), it seems that maybe, maybe, there really is some Mozartian hope left for me yet.

I'm reluctant to invest in Mackerras's Mozart, if only because it was the jolt I experienced on moving from Mackerras's Beethoven to Immerseel's that generated all this new excitement; and one thing that that experience taught me, loud and clear, is that I don't want modern instruments in this area, even with informed performance. I think Immerseel is the obvious way to go next. The important thing is that between you, you've persuaded me that there really is somewhere else worth going.



I think Immerseel would be a good choice for you too. My personal favorite is Hogwood, but hey, that's just me. One thing about the Mackerras though that I would like to mention. His Beethoven (if you have the same set I do) is with the Royal Liverpool Orchestra, and even though they are a fine band, and this is well played, they are a much larger group than the Anima Eterna group. In the Mozart, he is actually with the Prague Chamber Orchestra, a significantly smaller group of players, and very capable of projecting the transparency that makes the difference in Mozart performance. Of all the modern instrument performances of Mozart's symphonies, I like Mackerras/Prague the best. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Berliner Philharmoniker / Levine - Hob 21:2 Oratorio Die Schöpfung  pt 01 - Recitative with Chorus
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

FideLeo

#179
Quote from: Elgarian on July 31, 2009, 07:02:58 AM
the Immerseel Beethoven set (Beethoven on a motorbike instead of Beethoven in a family car)

Immerseel's Mozart set of 39-41 (plus bassoon concerto; I would like 38 instead) has really detailed and bright sound (engineering done by the old DHM/Tritonus team) and it also gets my thumb up interpretatively.  But talking about high impact, if you happen to see Ton Koopman's recordings of this music (whether original or reissue releases,) though, try them out as well.  Even leaner strings than the Immerseel, fruity woodwinds, thunderous timpani, plus honking horns and trumpets. Impetuous tempi in all outer movements and no second-half repeats at all: not the most majestic or refined readings or playing out there, but me likes it a lot just for all the stirring noises it makes.  :D

I have only heard Mackerras' Mozart on his more recent Linn SACD's, which he recorded with Scottish Chamber Orchestra.  Fine, poised, classical performances overall but I do not care for the sound of modern strings and woodwinds in this music, no matter how informed the playing is supposed to be.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!