Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)

[Elgarian]

But talking about high impact, if you happen to see Ton Koopman's recordings of this music (whether original or reissue releases,) though, try them out as well.  Even leaner strings than the Immerseel, fruity woodwinds, thunderous timpani, plus honking horns and trumpets. Impetuous tempi in all outer movements and no second-half repeats at all: not the most majestic or refined readings or playing out there, but me likes it a lot just for all the stirring noises it makes.  

Sounds very appealing! Thanks for this tip. And thanks to Gurn too - I take the point about size of the Prague orchestra (yes, it was the Liverpool Mackerras Beethoven I was referring to).

[Que]

But talking about high impact, if you happen to see Ton Koopman's recordings of this music (whether original or reissue releases,) though, try them out as well.  Even leaner strings than the Immerseel, fruity woodwinds, thunderous timpani, plus honking horns and trumpets. Impetuous tempi in all outer movements and no second-half repeats at all: not the most majestic or refined readings or playing out there, but me likes it a lot just for all the stirring noises it makes. 

A dissenting opinion on Koopman: I would avoid him in any Mozart... Yes: stirring, bright and very lively - it's all true. But Koopman really has no clue whatsoever how to properly shape this music - music from the Classical period obviously does not suit his musical instincts.

Q

[FideLeo]

A dissenting opinion on Koopman: I would avoid him in any Mozart... Yes: stirring, bright and very lively - it's all true. But Koopman really has no clue whatsoever how to properly shape this music - music from the Classical period obviously does not suit his musical instincts.

Q

That's fine -- I will take your words as an opinion -- but do consider the fact that Mozart did not see himself as a "classical" composer, nor shaped his own performances after any self-consciously "classical" style.  Whatever "clue" one may have of performing Mozart, it's strictly a result of our (historical, musical, musicological) imagination.  In this case, my "clue" is clearly different from yours. 

An example of Koopman's rather wild but infectious Mozart: Molto allegro from the "Jupiter" symphony (mp3, 14.5mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ij2n0edmwjz

A live recording, hence the audience ovation that follows.

[Que]

That's fine -- I will take your words as an opinion. (...) In this case, my "clue" is clearly different from yours. 

Well, I was talking about Koopman's "clue", but yes - this goes all without saying!

-- but do consider the fact that Mozart did not see himself as a "classical" composer, nor shaped his own performances after any self-consciously "classical" style.  Whatever "clue" one may have of performing Mozart, it's strictly a result of our (historical, musical, musicological) imagination. 

Calling it "Classical" or not (Yes, how could Mozart be aware of a later, historical musicological concept? ), Koopman does not "get" it IMO: funny accents, somewhat forced treatement of tempi and transitions, and trouble in approaching different movements in relation to each other. The works as a whole come across as lacking in cohesion and fragmentary, even within mvts. Maybe infectious on first listening, but I find it a bit tiresome thereafter. As a musician Koopman has a rather "willful" character. And nothing wrong with that - it leads to interesting angles to the music, but here it leads to uneasy results.

Don't get me wrong: enjoyable and certainly interesting interpretations, but not a primary recommendation.

Q

[Elgarian]

My first explorations suggest that the 2CD Immerseel set is out of print. Damn. There's a cheap reissue on 'Zigzag Zebra' which just has two of the symphonies. I suppose in the first instance I'll try that, unless I can find an isolated copy of the earlier 2CD issue cheaply somewhere.

[Que]

My first explorations suggest that the 2CD Immerseel set is out of print. Damn. There's a cheap reissue on 'Zigzag Zebra' which just has two of the symphonies. I suppose in the first instance I'll try that, unless I can find an isolated copy of the earlier 2CD issue cheaply somewhere.

It might indeed be OOP, but MDT still lists it for a very moderate £11.50 - might be worth a try!
In my experience they've come up with seemingly OOP items before. Jpc still lists it as well, which is a good sign - they are quite particular in removing OOP items.

Q

[DavidW]

An example of Koopman's rather wild but infectious Mozart: Molto allegro from the "Jupiter" symphony (mp3, 14.5mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ij2n0edmwjz

A live recording, hence the audience ovation that follows.

That was spectacular!!  Thanks for sharing that.

[Elgarian]

It might indeed be OOP, but MDT still lists it for a very moderate £11.50 - might be worth a try!
In my experience they've come up with seemingly OOP items before. Jpc still lists it as well, which is a good sign - they are quite particular in removing OOP items.

Thanks Que - I've ordered a copy from MDT and we'll see what happens.

[Que]

BTW A continuous run of snippets from Van Immerseel's Mozart symphonies 40 & 41 in good sound on the Zig Zag site HERE.

Q

[Bogey]

Since it is being played on Wolfie's gear:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8180648.stm

[Bogey]

There is a link here to sample the playing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/03/arts/music/03mozart.html

[Antoine Marchand]

Mozart – Sonatas for Fortepiano and Violin
[K.454 – K.379/373a –K.360/374b – 296]
Harmonia Mundi USA
Recorded June 2008

Petra Müllejans, violin Joseph Clotz, Mittenwald c. 1700

Kristian Bezuidenhout, fortepiano Derek Adlam , Welbeck 1987, after Anton Walter Vienna, c. 1795. From the collection of Christopher Hogwood. Temperament: Thomas Young, A=430

The performers' relationship is amazingly harmonious and it's captured in warm, "natural" and well-balanced sound. One of my favorite performances on period instruments next to Podger/Cooper (Channel Classics, 8 vols.).

[Elgarian]

It [the Immerseel 2CD Mozart symphony set]might indeed be OOP, but MDT still lists it for a very moderate £11.50 - might be worth a try!
In my experience they've come up with seemingly OOP items before.

Just heard from MDT, who tell me there could be a considerable delay in getting one, so I think I'll settle for the poor man's single CD reissue on Zigzag.


Meanwhile ... I'm enjoying the Mozart Requiem K626 on Naxos (Schult-Jensen), but could someone recommend to me a period instrument version, please? I'm thinking of Christie on Erato, unless someone persuades me otherwise.

[SonicMan46]

Mozart – Sonatas for Fortepiano and Violin  [K.454 – K.379/373a –K.360/374b – 296]  Harmonia Mundi USA
Recorded June 2008  -  Petra Müllejans, violin Joseph Clotz, Mittenwald c. 1700

Hi Antoine - for those looking for a 'complete' set of these works, another option are the two volumes below - culled out my other 'older' recordings of these works after the initial listening experience:

 

[Antoine Marchand]

Hi Antoine - for those looking for a 'complete' set of these works, another option are the two volumes below - culled out my other 'older' recordings of these works after the initial listening experience:

 

Hi, Dave. That set looks attractive indeed and it has been warmly recommended here. But I currently have some doubts about the completeness in these works because Podger/Cooper (excellent, excellent discs) recorded 8 volumes and the latter is a double SACD. I only have the four first volumes, but I will check on internet the tracks in every disc.  

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi, Dave. That set looks attractive indeed and it has been warmly recommended here. But I currently have some doubts about the completeness in these works because Podger/Cooper (excellent, excellent discs) recorded 8 volumes and the latter is a double SACD. I only have the four first volumes, but I will check on internet the tracks in every disc.  

Antoine,
Breitman/Rivest is 4 disks, it only is the 'adult' sonatas starting at K 296 and up. If Podger/Cooper included K 6/15 and 25/31, then that would require at least 2 more disks, lus another for the variations, plus another for all the fragments etc = 8 disks. I need to look into that if it is indeed the case.

[SonicMan46]

Antoine & Gurn - my interest was peaked to review the Köchel catalogue of his 'keyboard & piano' works in the back of my Mozart bio on New Grove; below is a listing of these recordings (i.e. their number, place of composition, and dates).  As Gurn indicated, those early K. numbers were done when Wolfie was less than 10 y/o (The Hague work was 'early' 1766), so 'how much' was his input, his father's help, others, or some combo?

Thus, the Breitman & Rivest performances (on 4 discs, as stated) contain 18 of the 'mature' compositions (* = Vol. 1; ++ = Vol. 2); K. 372 & the Variations are missing; but might be interesting to pick up those earlier works w/ Podger & Cooper?  Dave 


K. 6-7 2 Sonatas Salzburg,Paris, 1762-64
K. 8-9 2 Sonatas Paris, 1763-64
K. 10-15 6 Sonatas London, 1764
K. 26-31 6 Sonatas The Hague, 1766

K. 301 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 302 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 303 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 305 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 296 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*

K. 304 1 Sonata Paris, 1778*
K. 306 1 Sonata Paris, 1778*
K. 378 1 Sonata Salzburg, 1779-80++
K. 372 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781
K. 379 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 359 1 Variations Vienna, 1781
K. 360 1 Variations Vienna, 1781

K. 376 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 377 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 380 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 454 1 Sonata Vienna, 1784*
K. 481 1 Sonata Vienna, 1785++
K. 526 1 Sonata Vienna, 1787++
K. 547 1 Sonata Vienna, 1788 *

[jlaurson]

...but might be interesting to pick up those earlier works w/ Podger & Cooper?  Dave 

No.

A.) It's not interesting, because the works ("London Sonatas") are lovely and even more forgettable.

Yes.

B.) It's rewarding because they are coupled with the variations, and those are worth hearing.

Both are on volume 7/8. (Btw. it's 7 sets, the last with two discs... not 8 sets with the last containing two discs.)

[SonicMan46]

No. - A.) It's not interesting, because the works ("London Sonatas") are lovely and even more forgettable.

Yes. - B.) It's rewarding because they are coupled with the variations, and those are worth hearing.

Both are on volume 7/8. (Btw. it's 7 sets, the last with two discs... not 8 sets with the last containing two discs.)

Jens - thanks for the comments; right after posting that  K. list, I looked at the contents of the Podger/Cooper discs; now, I've not heard any of those 'juvenile' Mozart violin works, but the more 'mature' Violin Variations are of interest, as you noted.  I guess that my question is whether the reduced priced 2-disc set is worth the 'cost of admission' to obtain the latter works?  If not, any other recommendations? 

I'd also be curious if any of those early Wolfie violin compositions, i.e. those when he was less than 10 y/o are even worth exploring - any comments would be appreciated - thanks all!  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Jens - thanks for the comments; right after posting that  K. list, I looked at the contents of the Podger/Cooper discs; now, I've not heard any of those 'juvenile' Mozart violin works, but the more 'mature' Violin Variations are of interest, as you noted.  I guess that my question is whether the reduced priced 2-disc set is worth the 'cost of admission' to obtain the latter works?  If not, any other recommendations? 

I'd also be curious if any of those early Wolfie violin compositions, i.e. those when he was less than 10 y/o are even worth exploring - any comments would be appreciated - thanks all!  Dave 

Dave, Dave Dave.   Of course they are worth exploring. Are they equal to the adult works? No. Are they interesting as a document of his early period. Yes, they are. Are they the equal of other K & V sonatas being written in the mid-1760's? Surprisingly, yes, they are. The form itself, in its 'modern' version, had only been invented in 1762 by Schöbert in Paris, and by 1764-5 Mozart himself was in Paris, learning from Schöbert. They are juvenilia, true, but nothing at all like the preceding keyboard pieces from Nannerl's Notebook. The first 2 were engraved in Paris and dedicated to the Queen of France. In any case, they are not crap.



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Listening to:
Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03 29 Quartet in G for Strings Op 17 #5 1st mvmt - Moderato