Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)

Started by Bunny, April 12, 2007, 10:40:31 AM

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SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 26, 2009, 05:04:58 PM
Dave, Dave Dave. ::)  Of course they are worth exploring. Are they equal to the adult works? No. Are they interesting as a document of his early period. Yes, they are. Are they the equal of other K & V sonatas being written in the mid-1760's? Surprisingly, yes, they are. The form itself, in its 'modern' version, had only been invented in 1762 by Schöbert in Paris, and by 1764-5 Mozart himself was in Paris, learning from Schöbert. They are juvenilia, true, but nothing at all like the preceding keyboard pieces from Nannerl's Notebook. The first 2 were engraved in Paris and dedicated to the Queen of France. In any case, they are not crap. :)

Gurn - LOL!  ;D  You know that I was just 'yanking @ a chain' for a response; the Podger/Cooper double-disc set will likely be my next order - already on my 'wish list' - Dave  ;) :D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on August 26, 2009, 05:18:23 PM
Gurn - LOL!  ;D  You know that I was just 'yanking @ a chain' for a response; the Podger/Cooper double-disc set will likely be my next order - already on my 'wish list' - Dave  ;) :D

:P

:D

Yes, I know, you are not one of those 'nothing before K 250' people. In the interest of PoF (Peace on Forum) I won't go further with that. :D  Anyway, I am thinking of grabbing that myself. I have them played (as is proper) on harpsichord, but I would like to hear them on fortepiano. The later ones, K 10-15 and 26-31, are also scored for flute and a continuuo, which I have a version of too, flute and organ, in fact. It is interesting to hear them played both ways. :)

8)


----------------
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Antoine Marchand

#202
IMO, Cooper/Podger have recorded an exceptional cycle (at least the volumes that I know), arguably the best available on the market, although I have just listened to some samples of Rivest/Breitman. In fact, just the disc by Uchida/Steinberg –dark and played on modern instruments- impressed me so immediately like Cooper/Podger. Their recordings are clearly superior, for example, to the set of Devos/Kuijken, which I also own (... forgive me Sigiswald, I don't know how I'm saying this). All of this IMHO, of course.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 26, 2009, 05:35:12 PM
Yes, I know, you are not one of those 'nothing before K 250' people.

Me, neither. Though I know how you feel, Gurn. I'll never forget the beating I took at the hands of one of our resident trolls for daring to start a Mozart divertimento/serenade thread (on the old board). Little did I know that that's pre-genius Mozart fully deserving to be swept into the musical refuse bin.

Silly me.

(I'm embellishing a bit but it certainly made no sense to me :-\).
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Antoine Marchand

Curiously, I did read this passage yesterday in the Conversations with Goethe (by his secretary Eckermann):

1830
Wed., Feb. 3.- Dined with Goethe. We talked of Mozart.
"I saw him", said Goethe, "at seven years old, when he gave a concert while traveling our way. I myself was about fourteen years old, and remember perfectly the little man, with his frisure and sword".
"I stared, for it seemed to me almost wonderful that Goethe was old enough to have seen Mozart, when a child".

:)

Elgarian

I think I may be about to experience a Mozartian shake-up of intensity comparable to the one I had when I discovered Immerseel's Beethoven cycle recently. The catalyst is this:



I can't analyse exactly why this is happening; all I know is that after decades of relative insensitivity to Mozart opera, this is setting me on fire. Whether it's the period instruments per se, I doubt; rather, it's the urgency, the drama, the vibrancy. The exquisiteness comes through, but it comes through like a living thing, rather than as a museum exhibit. It has something to do with watching the DVD Jacobs made about his recording of Idomeneo - I think, watching and listening to that, even though he was dealing with a different opera, I really started to 'get' it for the first time. But whatever the reason this is exhilarating stuff.

(I did a comparison between Donna Anna's wonderful 'O Sai Ch L'Onore' aria as sung here by Olga Pasichnyk, and another version by Rachel Mathes - and the difference was extraordinary. The Mathes is beautifully, forcefully sung - but it's sung as music; the Pasichnyk is sung as music drama. Not a question of which is 'best' - rather, two completely different philosophies about how the thing should be performed and presented.)

And you get Watteau on the box, and on the booklet. I mean, is this heaven or what? AND PrestoClassical are selling Harmonia Mundi at 30% off right now, so I've snapped up the rest of the Jacobs Mozart operas already.


jlaurson

#206
Quote from: SonicMan on August 26, 2009, 03:25:14 PM
I'd also be curious if any of those early Wolfie violin compositions, i.e. those when he was less than 10 y/o are even worth exploring - any comments would be appreciated - thanks all!  Dave  :)

I don't think WAM at age <14 composed anything that other, albeit mature, composers (never mind WAM at >14) didn't do better. It's impressive if you think it was a kid (though not as impressive as other kid-composers like Korngold or Mendelssohn), but without the association of the name Mozart, it'd be considered what it is: trivial exercises. Nothing tells you about the genius to suddenly break out with K271.

P.S. Please take note that >14 includes far more than K271 and upward. We should also note the difference between a piece of music having worth on account of its own merit or merit on account of what it tells us about the composer. If one wishes to get a musico-biographical account of Mozart, then even the trite stuff is "interesting" or even "worth it".

That said, I don't see how any of the first 11 symphonies couldn't also have been written by Abel (on a bad day). Then again, all violin concertos are certainly worthy Mozart.
I'm listening to the "vol.8" disc of the cooper/podger (keyboard sonatas with violin obbligato, after all) right now. Sure it's lovely stuff. But I think it would be unfair if this music, just for Mozart's name, overshadowed music that is better but by composers less known. (Sort of like every last fart of Beethoven is enshrined, while Ries' or Onslow's music is (or has long been) ignored.)

jlaurson

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 26, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
In fact, just the disc by Uchida/Steinberg –dark and played on modern instruments- impressed me so immediately like Cooper/Podger.

What fine taste you have...  ;D

QuoteHilary Hahn and her friend Natalie Zhu do much for Mozart with
their recording of the F major (K. 376), G major (K. 301), E minor (K. 304),
and A major (K. 526) sonatas for piano and violin. They are played on
conventional instruments, but the reading is more than just conventional.
It is spirited and most enjoyable. Still, these are not Mozart's strongest works.
Of course, you'd never know by the slew of violin sonata issues that await us
this year: the Manze/Egarr team treat us to original instruments. I
thought that Rachel Podger and Gary Cooper (whose volume two of the
complete set is coming soon) would be difficult to surpass. The new recording
of Andrew Manze and Richard Egarr, however, seems to do so. (For lack of any
overlap between the two discs a comparison is a little unfair, perhaps, but
Manze/Egarr skate more melodiously through the sonatas.) To be honest,
even the best original instruments version would not really do it for me – I like
the sound of a healthy grand piano in works that should not automatically have
the violinist named first on the cover. There was one album that did that this
year – and completely out of the blue, too. Mitsuko Uchida and Mark Steinberg
(who? - Exactly!) are the only two players to date that have convinced me that
K. 377, K. 303, K. 304, and K. 526 are truly great works of music. Youthful
energy that Hahn/Zhu bring to the table, they may not stop Uchida/Steinberg
on their way to a 'Records of 2005' spot at ionarts.

Quote

Best of 2005
W. A. Mozart, Sonatas for Violin and Piano, Mark Steinberg/Mitsuko Uchida
#2 (New)
Although I have mentioned this recording at about every opportunity I have had,
I never actually wrote a review for it. Shocking. I don't think this Mozart disc was
related in any way to the Mozart hoopla of his 250th birthday, but it emerged as
the Mozart recording of 2005/2006, anyway. Is it Uchida and her assertive,
unfailingly beautiful playing that elevates this disc and the works thereon to a
whole new level? Is it Mark Steinberg's flawless, unselfconscious violin playing? Is
it the expedient choice of works (K303, 304, 377, 526)? Given that I've heard
these works with other, very fine, musicians and was not always or entirely
convinced of their repeat-listening merit, I suspect that it is a magical confluence
of joy in music making that has beset Uchida/Steinberg. Of course I want more
Mozart from these two players now. At the same time I am worried: can such
musical love really be repeated?


Antoine Marchand

#208
Quote from: jlaurson on August 27, 2009, 02:50:26 PM
What fine taste you have...  ;D



You're a perceptive man, Mr. Laurson.  ;D ;D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: jlaurson on August 27, 2009, 02:50:26 PM
What fine taste you have...  ;D
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 27, 2009, 06:21:33 PM
You're a perceptive man, Mr. Laurson.  ;D ;D

::)

OK, lads, none of that. ;D 

(Even though he's right). :)

8)

----------------
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Antoine Marchand

Listened to during these days:

András Schiff – Concertos & Chamber Music
9 CDs
Warner Classics
CD 6 - 63:16
Mozart – Piano trios, K502 & K542
"Kegelstatt" Trio, K498

Andras Schiff (fortepiano)
Yuuko Shiokawa (violin)
Erich Hobarth (viola)
Miklos Perenyi (cello)
Elmar Schmid (clarinet)

This disc was originally Teldec, later Elatus and currently it's included in this Warner Classics box set.

The information about the instruments is minimal in the booklet:

The piano and the violin, and probably also the viola, used in this recording belonged to Mozart himself; they are preserved today in the Mozart Birthplace Museum of the Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum Salzburg.

The fortepiano should be the Mozart's 1780 Anton Walter. About the violin and viola the issue is more problematic:

"Leopold, who took the greatest care about musical education of Wolfgang, furnished him with a few instruments. Originally "baroque", these instruments were modernized in the 2nd half of the 18th century.

This is the list of instruments, preserved in the Mozart Museum in Salzburg:

1. Child Violin (Kindergeige) - in a possession of Mozart Museum since 1896. It is modernized to such an extent that it has lost almost all historical interest.

2. Violin - with a false label "Jakobus Stainer, in Absam, / prope Oenipotum, 1659. This violin was probably made in Mittenwald in the first half of the 18th century. According to some theories it is that violin, which Mozart used it until 1781, however, there is not enough evidence to assume that this violin ever belonged to Mozart.)

3. Viola, labeled "...iouani Paolo Megini/a Brescia. - 161*".

(Dmitry Badiarov, "Mozart's Violin")

All in all, a nice recording, especially of the piano trios, but probably not superior to the outstanding performance of The Mozartean Players (Lubin, Ritchie, Lutzke)

karlhenning

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 27, 2009, 06:15:46 AM
Curiously, I did read this passage yesterday in the Conversations with Goethe (by his secretary Eckermann):

1830
Wed., Feb. 3.- Dined with Goethe. We talked of Mozart.
"I saw him", said Goethe, "at seven years old, when he gave a concert while traveling our way. I myself was about fourteen years old, and remember perfectly the little man, with his frisure and sword".
"I stared, for it seemed to me almost wonderful that Goethe was old enough to have seen Mozart, when a child".

:)

I have got to ask (and this is the perfect forum to find someone who might answer):  what's a frisure?

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 28, 2009, 11:53:21 AM
I have got to ask (and this is the perfect forum to find someone who might answer):  what's a frisure?

frisseur, actually. I believe it is a reference to his powdered wig. Has to do with hair, in any case. You know more French than I do... :)

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 28, 2009, 12:04:05 PM
... a reference to his powdered wig

I agree.

Frisure
Fri"sure`\, n. [F.] The dressing of the hair by crisping or curling.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


:)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 28, 2009, 07:47:14 PM
I agree.

Frisure
Fri"sure`\, n. [F.] The dressing of the hair by crisping or curling.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


:)

Thanks for the English definition, Antoine. I believe the French that I cited means "hairdresser". Mozart mentions in a letter to Constanze much later on (1788? 89?) that the "frisseur was in early this morning". It is the way that Goethe uses it ('with his frisure and sword') that makes me think he is talking about the wig... :-\  At least, that has always been the way I read that, right or wrong. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
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Antoine Marchand

#215
Quote from: opus106 on September 11, 2009, 11:48:14 PM
I'd be interested on your take on the Mozart box, Antoine. :)

Mozart - Chamber Music

Contents:

CD1
Divertimento for violin, viola and cello in E flat major K563 (1788) [49:21]
Quartet for oboe, violin and 'cello in F major K370 (1781) [14:32]
Jaap Schröder, violin
Judson Griffin, viola
Jaap ter Linden, violoncello
Michel Piguet, oboe

CD2
String Quartet no 14 in G major K 387 (1782) [21:11]
String Quartet no 15 in D minor K 421 (1783) [30:45]

CD3
String Quartet no 16 in E flat major K428 (1784) [33:40]
String Quartet no 17 in B flat major K 458 "The Hunt" (1784) [32:49]

CD4
String Quartet no 18 in A major K464 (1785) [37:42]
String Quartet no 19 in C major K465 "Dissonance" (1785) [38:06]

CD5
String Quintet in B flat major K174 (1773) [39:52]
String Quintet in G minor K516 (1787) [39:33]

Recorded at Chateaubriant, France, 19-23 September 1990 (disc 1); Evangelische Kirche, Honrath, Germany, 16-23 October 1989 (Discs 2-4); Rosslyn Hill Chapel, Hampstead, London, UK, 17-21 October 1990 (Disc 5). DDD

Virgin Classics 3727782

5 CDs: 63:58 + 66:17 + 66:34 + 75:53 + 79:13

Smithson String Quartet
Jaap Schröder, violin (Gioffredo Cappa, Saluzzo, 1684)
Marylin McDonald, violin (Jacobus Stainer, Absam, 1665)
Judson Griffin, viola (J. Michael Alban, Graz, c1710)
Kenneth Slowik, cello (Paul Francois Grosst, Paris, 1748)

Lisa Rautenberg (2nd viola in K174 and K516))

IMO these performances are generally excellent, recorded in natural and well balanced sound. The performers are all first-rate. Probably the only criticism is about the customary poor quality of the minimal booklets in these Virgin re-releases. But for $18.37 ($15.97) at MDT this is a minor quibble and there is no doubt that this set is a must-have:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//3727782.htm

Just to compare I will say that ArkivMusik offers the CD2 at $16.99 (ArkivCD):

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=151590&album_group=8

The Smithson String Quartet was founded in 1982, as a part of the program of the National Museum of American History (Smithsonian Institut) to use its historical instruments for live musical performances. The present name of the ensemble is Axelrod String Quartet because in 1998 was changed to acknowledge a generous endowment to perpetuate string quartet performances at the museum. The current members of the Axelrod String Quartet are Marc Destrubé and Marylin McDonald, violins; James Dunham, viola, and Kenneth Slowick, violoncello.

:)

Opus106

Thank you so much, Antoine, for remembering my request. :) Another member here (traverso?) was also not overly enthusiastic about the set, but he had nothing to complain about it, either. I think I've seen this box sell for about the same price (probably even less) at a store here locally. I'll pick it up if I see it.
Regards,
Navneeth

Que

Just spotted. It seems that Teunis van der Zwart is the new torch bearer of Dutch players of the natural horn - following in the footsteps of the illustrious Ab Koster.


[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.glossamusic.com//glossa/files/References/174/audio/10.mp3[/mp3]

Horn Concerto in E flat, KV 447
Aria "Lungi da te", from Mitridate, re di Ponto, KV 87
Quintet in E flat for horn, violin, 2 violas and bass, KV 407
Ein musikalischer Spass for 2 violins, viola, bass and 2 horns, KV 522
Horn Duos from KV 487


Q

Elgarian

If anyone felt able to recommend 'best' HIP recordings of the Clarinet Concerto, and the Flute & Harp Concerto, I'd be much obliged.

The only recordings I have are those on this CD, i.e. Marriner/Leister/Grafenauer/Graf:


Que

Quote from: Elgarian on October 17, 2009, 12:54:04 AM
If anyone felt able to recommend 'best' HIP recordings of the Clarinet Concerto, and the Flute & Harp Concerto, I'd be much obliged.

The only recordings I have are those on this CD, i.e. Marriner/Leister/Grafenauer/Graf:



For the clarinet concerto:



See my earlier post HERE.

Q