Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)

[Elgarian]

Thanks Que. This seems to have had an earlier release on Philips, coupled (more sensibly) with the clarinet quintet:



(I presume this is the same recording?)

Either way, I'll put this on my list for purchases next month. Thanks.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Thanks Que. This seems to have had an earlier release on Philips, coupled (more sensibly) with the clarinet quintet:

I'm of a different mind than Que on this one. I used to have this disc and yes it's HIP but it's not the best representation of this music, IMO. (Either work).

For me with Leister you already have one of the greatest exponents of this work on disc (Jack Brymer being the other - both with Marriner, coincidently). And for once Marriner is completely in his element, here, bringing a delicacy and transparency very much in the character of HIP. But what puts Leister (or Brymer)/Marriner over the top is the expert use of color, something paradoxically I don't find in Hoeprich/Brüggen despite its HIP origins.

Anyway, I hate to be at odds with my friend Q but that's just the way I see it.    
 

[DavidW]

Is Trio Stradivari any good for the piano trios?  Anyone heard them or have clear preferences for those works?

Edit: doesn't have to be clear

[Gurn Blanston]

Is Trio Stradivari any good for the piano trios?  Anyone heard them or have clear preferences for those works?

Edit: doesn't have to be clear

The Gryphon Trio is excellent, and they aren't even PI!   Never heard the Stradivari though... 



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Listening to:
Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03 76 Quartet in d for Strings Op 76 #2 2nd mvmt - Andante

[Elgarian]

For me with Leister you already have one of the greatest exponents of this work on disc (Jack Brymer being the other - both with Marriner, coincidently). And for once Marriner is completely in his element, here, bringing a delicacy and transparency very much in the character of HIP.

Well, this too is very useful to know, and in some ways I'm not surprised - it's the only version of the work I know, but it seems to me very beautifully played and I imagine it would be hard to beat. Maybe then I can't get a 'better' performance - only a 'different' one?

[DavidW]

Well, this too is very useful to know, and in some ways I'm not surprised - it's the only version of the work I know, but it seems to me very beautifully played and I imagine it would be hard to beat. Maybe then I can't get a 'better' performance - only a 'different' one?

I might be alone in this but I think that Marriner is flat out great in Mozart.  I still remember buying the tape (yeah it was those days ) of the 25th and 29th and in that opening movement of the 25th the flames were just flying off the violins it was so heated, so passionate.   And the 29th was charming, sublime but not indulgently romantic, just excellent.  After that I bought some of the serenades and some other things that also did not disappoint.  For me Marriner can be pretty dull with other composers, but I feel that he has an affinity for Mozart.

[Elgarian]

I might be alone in this but I think that Marriner is flat out great in Mozart.  I still remember buying the tape (yeah it was those days ) of the 25th and 29th and in that opening movement of the 25th the flames were just flying off the violins it was so heated, so passionate.   And the 29th was charming, sublime but not indulgently romantic, just excellent.

Interesting comments, Dave, thank you. Oddly enough, I was playing Marriner's 'Jupiter' (Philips) earlier today, and getting very involved with it - to the extent that I actually stopped eating my lunch (greater love hath no man)! Perhaps it's just a matter of mood, but it seems to me a far more engaging effort than Pinnock's HIP recording, which always puts me to sleep.

So it's not that I'm looking merely for HIP Mozart. I'm looking for HIP Mozart that will make me go WOW!

[DavidW]

Interesting comments, Dave, thank you. Oddly enough, I was playing Marriner's 'Jupiter' (Philips) earlier today, and getting very involved with it - to the extent that I actually stopped eating my lunch (greater love hath no man)! Perhaps it's just a matter of mood, but it seems to me a far more engaging effort than Pinnock's HIP recording, which always puts me to sleep.

So it's not that I'm looking merely for HIP Mozart. I'm looking for HIP Mozart that will make me go WOW!

Yeah he's not HIP as Stuart mentioned, and I haven't heard the recording that Donwyn mentioned in particular, but I bet if it's like the Marriner Mozart recordings I've heard before, it will be wonderful.

Yeah Pinnock is pretty drab in Mozart.  I sold that set pretty quick!

[Que]

Thanks Que. This seems to have had an earlier release on Philips, coupled (more sensibly) with the clarinet quintet:



(I presume this is the same recording?)

Either way, I'll put this on my list for purchases next month. Thanks.

Didn't know of the existence of that Philips recording!

Recording, not issue, because they can't be the same: the Glossa is recorded in Feb. 2001 and the Philips was issued (in the US, according to Amazon) in Oct. 1990.

Donwyn, maybe they did a better job the 2nd time around? 

EDIT: according to the booklet (of the Glossa issue) the Philips recording dates from 1985, see also the review on the Glossa rec. from Fanfare HERE.

Q

[Elgarian]

Recording, not issue, because they can't be the same: the Glossa is recorded in Feb. 2001 and the Philips was issued (in the US, according to Amazon) in Oct. 1990.

Aha! Thanks. I shall confine my attention to the Glossa recording!

[Coopmv]

Aha! Thanks. I shall confine my attention to the Glossa recording!

Elgarian,  You missed the Glossa sales at MDT.  I loaded up on all the baroque and early music on that label last month and am still receiving back orders ...

[Coopmv]

I hope to start listening to this set tomorrow, which arrived about 2 weeks ago.  It will take me quite a few weekends to listen through 19 CD's. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, this too is very useful to know, and in some ways I'm not surprised - it's the only version of the work I know, but it seems to me very beautifully played and I imagine it would be hard to beat. Maybe then I can't get a 'better' performance - only a 'different' one?

If it's the only version you know I'd say you've hit on the right choice. I too have sought out alternate performances but none have really made any radical difference in my preferences. Leister/Brymer/Marriner have stood the test of time for me.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Donwyn, maybe they did a better job the 2nd time around? 

No doubt that could very well be the case, Q.

But admittedly I remain skeptical, mainly because of Brüggen's tendency for orchestral dryness over color - it's something I've never really been able to get past. I guess it's just a personal thing but I prefer conductors who draw more color out of the music - any music - and this just isn't Brüggen's style. Fine for him but not really my cup-o-java.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I might be alone in this but I think that Marriner is flat out great in Mozart.  I still remember buying the tape (yeah it was those days ) of the 25th and 29th and in that opening movement of the 25th the flames were just flying off the violins it was so heated, so passionate.   And the 29th was charming, sublime but not indulgently romantic, just excellent.  After that I bought some of the serenades and some other things that also did not disappoint.  For me Marriner can be pretty dull with other composers, but I feel that he has an affinity for Mozart.

I agree with this 100%, David. I'm not the biggest Marriner fan but much of his Mozart is right up my ally. Mainly, like you say, because of his aversion toward excess. Plus his ability to make a large chunk of Mozart's divertimenti and serenades sound magnificent is virtually unparalleled in my experience. Which is quite an achievement.     

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The Gryphon Trio is excellent, and they aren't even PI!

Second this rec, for sure.

[Sorin Eushayson]

Yeah Pinnock is pretty drab in Mozart.  I sold that set pretty quick!

Wow.  Really?!  I thought that set was fantastic.  In fact, I consider it the gold standard for Mozart symphony sets!  I did just the opposite of you, actually, and got rid of my Marriner set!  

By the way, there's a new album out for the 25th, 26th, & 29th Symphonies...



A hearty recommendation for all the HIP fanatics here.  This is a new ensemble formed in 2005 and they give Mozart a vivacious and fiery performance (for once)!

[Que]

No doubt that could very well be the case, Q.

But admittedly I remain skeptical, mainly because of Brüggen's tendency for orchestral dryness over color - it's something I've never really been able to get past. I guess it's just a personal thing but I prefer conductors who draw more color out of the music - any music - and this just isn't Brüggen's style. Fine for him but not really my cup-o-java.

I understand what you're saying Donwyn, and I actually share those reservations on Brüggen. But I think this recording turned out quite fine, with Hoeprich playing magnificently. Though Brüggen is still a far cry away from the Mozart Colourist Supreme: Van Immerseel.

Q

[Elgarian]

the Mozart Colourist Supreme: Van Immerseel.

This is an experience I have yet to sample (too many CDs asking me to buy them, and too little cash to do it with), but I am enormously hopeful about it, if it's as revelatory as his Beethoven.

[SonicMan46]

Well, have just listened to Vols. 7/8 (double-CD set in a slim jewel box) of the 'early' Mozart Violin Sonatas w/ Rachel Podger & Gary Cooper; these discs 'fill-in' most of those early works from the 1760s, and nicely supplement the more mature compositions; the musicians perform admirably and the recording sound is superb; certainly a bargain & a recommendation if interested in Wolfie's juvenile years - 

Antoine & Gurn - my interest was peaked to review the Köchel catalogue of his 'keyboard & piano' works in the back of my Mozart bio on New Grove; below is a listing of these recordings (i.e. their number, place of composition, and dates).  As Gurn indicated, those early K. numbers were done when Wolfie was less than 10 y/o (The Hague work was 'early' 1766), so 'how much' was his input, his father's help, others, or some combo?

Thus, the Breitman & Rivest performances (on 4 discs, as stated) contain 18 of the 'mature' compositions (* = Vol. 1; ++ = Vol. 2); K. 372 & the Variations are missing; but might be interesting to pick up those earlier works w/ Podger & Cooper?  Dave 


K. 6-7 2 Sonatas Salzburg,Paris, 1762-64
K. 8-9 2 Sonatas Paris, 1763-64
K. 10-15 6 Sonatas London, 1764
K. 26-31 6 Sonatas The Hague, 1766

K. 301 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 302 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 303 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 305 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*
K. 296 1 Sonata Mannheim, 1778*

K. 304 1 Sonata Paris, 1778*
K. 306 1 Sonata Paris, 1778*
K. 378 1 Sonata Salzburg, 1779-80++
K. 372 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781
K. 379 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 359 1 Variations Vienna, 1781
K. 360 1 Variations Vienna, 1781

K. 376 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 377 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 380 1 Sonata Vienna, 1781++
K. 454 1 Sonata Vienna, 1784*
K. 481 1 Sonata Vienna, 1785++
K. 526 1 Sonata Vienna, 1787++
K. 547 1 Sonata Vienna, 1788 *