Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)

[SonicMan46]

I haven't looked for them in a long time, Dave, but if you want some PI Mozart fortepiano works, Bilson's sonata set is hard to beat too. Just sayin'...

Hi Gurn - yes, I've seen that set and have considered a purchase; now, I do own two PI performances of the Sonatas already, i.e. Lubimov & Brautigam, and please w/ both - any new ones coming out?  Just wondering - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - yes, I've seen that set and have considered a purchase; now, I do own two PI performances of the Sonatas already, i.e. Lubimov & Brautigam, and please w/ both - any new ones coming out?  Just wondering - Dave 

Well, since DavidW has already tagged me as a HIP/PI snob, I might as well just go ahead and say "if you don't have Badura-Skoda doing those works, you haven't actually heard them yet"....   No, I can't bring myself to cross that threshold into pure asshole-dom, although thousands have. But I am far more behind that set than any others. I have Lubimov & Brautigam too, Bilson is just uniquely good in his own understated way. I find it hard to rec one over another (except for Badura-Skoda, of course).

If it is as good as his Schubert set, it is a keeper.   

I think it is Leon, I have them both and wouldn't part with either.



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Now playing:
Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03 65 Quartet in C for Strings Op. 64 #1 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[kishnevi]

Hi Gurn - yes, I've seen that set and have considered a purchase; now, I do own two PI performances of the Sonatas already, i.e. Lubimov & Brautigam, and please w/ both - any new ones coming out?  Just wondering - Dave 

I'm finishing up the Bart van Oort set on Brilliant--includes all the keyboard works, including the 2 keyboard/four hands works (with Ursula Duetschler as his partner in the latter). I don't have anything to directly compare it to, but after 12 CDs (with 2 more to go) I've yet to hear anything I didn't  like.  Even the juvenalia is a pleasant little CD to listen to.

[Roberto]

She is the daughter of Vladimir S. and the grand daughter of Alexander Scriabin (some of those genes must have rubbed off in her obvious talent); plus, her husband is Paul McNulty who built her fortepiano (and I'm sure that the instrument was kept well in tune!).

My only other PI set is w/ Bilson, so cannot provide the extensive notes left by Roberto - 

I have known Viviana's husband is McNulty. I think Viviana's fortepiano is really superb.

I have only 2 downloaded CD from Bilson's set but I will buy the entire set sometime in the future. If I had known Bilson's set then I would have written more. 

[Roberto]

Yes, the Levin is very good (might also be my favorite), too bad he never got the complete cycle finished - but I have all but one of the individual sets.  Also, I agree with you on Immerseel - I was very disappointed with this set since I had such high expectations, and it is not disappointement so much with his playing, but the balance between the soloist and the orchestra.  Bilson is better, but I have yet to listen to all of this set - I need to.  I will.   

Immerseel's was my first set and he "introduced" me Mozart's piano concertos so this set will always be my special piano concerto set but you are right: the balance is not so good. But it is not so disturbing when I listened to it on my stereo not earphones.

There's some interesting HIP Mozart on Naxos Music Library.  Aside from the complete Sofronitsky I found a nice selection of some that I knew about and some I did not know about:

I knew Brautigam before but not the others. Thanks!

[SonicMan46]

This morning decided to give Bilson another listen - so far, definitely preferred over Viviana's recordings - the orchestra under Gardiner is just so 'polished' - excellent PI set; now do I need yet another PI box?   

[SonicMan46]

........."if you don't have Badura-Skoda doing those works, you haven't actually heard them yet"....   No, I can't bring myself to cross that threshold into pure asshole-dom, although thousands have. But I am far more behind that set than any others. I have Lubimov & Brautigam too, Bilson is just uniquely good in his own understated way. I find it hard to rec one over another (except for Badura-Skoda, of course).

Hi Gurn - your comments above on Badura-Skoda peaked my attention (presumably your preference in the Mozart Sonatas?) - now I have his Schubert recordings; however, the Wolfie (at least as a 5-disc box) seems unavailable - so, I was able to download the five discs as FLAC files, converted them to MP3 (256 kbps), and burned to one CD-R.

Now listening to disc No. 3 - these performances are beautifully done - don't have any liner notes but if possible would be curious about the recording time span and the fortepiano used (I know he owns a number of these instruments) - would appreciate any information - thanks, as usual.  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - your comments above on Badura-Skoda peaked my attention (presumably your preference in the Mozart Sonatas?) - now I have his Schubert recordings; however, the Wolfie (at least as a 5-disc box) seems unavailable - so, I was able to download the five discs as FLAC files, converted them to MP3 (256 kbps), and burned to one CD-R.

Now listening to disc No. 3 - these performances are beautifully done - don't have any liner notes but if possible would be curious about the recording time span and the fortepiano used (I know he owns a number of these instruments) - would appreciate any information - thanks, as usual.  Dave

Hey, Dave. Well that's an interesting set right there. I actually have the "hard copies" of those, so I can tell you without a doubt that there are no liner notes, not a note to be seen or heard anywhere about them. I agree, they are very nice performances indeed. However, I will pass this along to you; despite the fact that there is an unquestionable picture of a fortepiano on the cover, I have been told by someone knowledgeable about these things that it is a modern piano of some sort that he is playing. It sounded like one to me, even though some modern pianos can be made to sound rather like a fortepiano (note Ingrid Haebler playing Mozart on Philips or John McCabe playing Haydn on Decca). In the end they are too smooth to be genuinely a Walter, Steiner or Schantz (or a good copy, since it's the action, not the age, that rock and rolls). That was why I started asking around about it. If someone has a definitive answer to the contrary I would be interested to hear that side of the story.

No matter the instrument, they are still very fine performances, and I listen to my set fairly often still.



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Now playing:
Four Nations Ensemble - Keyboard Trio No. 18 (Sonata) in A - Hob XV-18 - Allegro

[Antoine Marchand]

Hey, Dave. Well that's an interesting set right there. I actually have the "hard copies" of those, so I can tell you without a doubt that there are no liner notes, not a note to be seen or heard anywhere about them. I agree, they are very nice performances indeed. However, I will pass this along to you; despite the fact that there is an unquestionable picture of a fortepiano on the cover, I have been told by someone knowledgeable about these things that it is a modern piano of some sort that he is playing. It sounded like one to me, even though some modern pianos can be made to sound rather like a fortepiano (note Ingrid Haebler playing Mozart on Philips or John McCabe playing Haydn on Decca). In the end they are too smooth to be genuinely a Walter, Steiner or Schantz (or a good copy, since it's the action, not the age, that rock and rolls). That was why I started asking around about it. If someone has a definitive answer to the contrary I would be interested to hear that side of the story.

No matter the instrument, they are still very fine performances, and I listen to my set fairly often still.

I didn't know the existence of these recordings.

I own the complete piano sonatas - plus some miscellaneous works - recorded on Naïve, a 6-CD set which includes a description of the fortepiano played in every disc (from Badura-Skoda's collection) and extensive liner notes by him and Eva Badura-Skoda.

This is my set:

[Gurn Blanston]

I didn't know the existence of these recordings.

I own the complete piano sonatas - plus some miscellaneous works - recorded on Naïve, a 6-CD set which includes a description of the fortepiano played in every disc (from Badura-Skoda's collection) and extensive liner notes by him and Eva Badura-Skoda.

This is my set:

Yes, that is the set that I also have. I actually bought it to replace the one that Dave mentions, simply because I didn't know anything about that set, the box says absolutely nothing except the track names. It's the Naive one that I was talking about earlier though. Wonderful set, and easily my favorite despite all the others I have.




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Now playing:
New Dusseldorf Hofmusik / Utiger   Christine Schornsheim - Hob 18 02 Concerto in D for Harpsichord 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Antoine Marchand]

Yes, that is the set that I also have. I actually bought it to replace the one that Dave mentions, simply because I didn't know anything about that set, the box says absolutely nothing except the track names. It's the Naive one that I was talking about earlier though. Wonderful set, and easily my favorite despite all the others I have.

Then he recorded twice the piano sonatas... interesting. He did so with Beethoven: he recorded the complete piano sonatas between 1969-70 (still available on Gramola) and then recorded them again in Naïve, this time on pianoforte (the first set was played on his Bösendorfer Imperial, I think).     

[Gurn Blanston]

Then he recorded twice the piano sonatas... interesting. He did so with Beethoven: he recorded the complete piano sonatas between 1969-70 (still available on Gramola) and then recorded them again in Naïve, this time on pianoforte (the first set was played on his Bösendorfer Imperial, I think).   

Yes, that is correct (AFAIK). I also have the Astrée/Naive set. Todd has reviewed the Bösendorfer set quite favorably, although I wasn't particularly interested in yet another modern piano set, despite that the piano is such a great one. As far as Mozart goes, I had heard that he maybe recorded them 3 times total. I don't know, the set we have on Naive is a re-release of an Astrée original, I'm fairly sure.



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Now playing:
New Dusseldorf Hofmusik / Utiger   Christine Schornsheim - Hob 18 08 Concerto in C for Organ 1st mvmt - Moderato

[SonicMan46]

Hey, Dave. Well that's an interesting set right there. I actually have the "hard copies" of those, so I can tell you without a doubt that there are no liner notes, not a note to be seen or heard anywhere about them. I agree, they are very nice performances indeed. However, I will pass this along to you; despite the fact that there is an unquestionable picture of a fortepiano on the cover, I have been told by someone knowledgeable about these things that it is a modern piano of some sort that he is playing. It sounded like one to me, even though some modern pianos can be made to sound rather like a fortepiano (note Ingrid Haebler playing Mozart on Philips or John McCabe playing Haydn on Decca). In the end they are too smooth to be genuinely a Walter, Steiner or Schantz (or a good copy, since it's the action, not the age, that rock and rolls). That was why I started asking around about it. If someone has a definitive answer to the contrary I would be interested to hear that side of the story.

No matter the instrument, they are still very fine performances, and I listen to my set fairly often still.

Gurn - now this is becoming mysterious! 

I've gone through 4 of the discs (as MP3 files) and agree that the piano just sounded rather 'modern' to my ears - still, excellent performances, so now I'm intrigued -   

I found a post on a Mozart Forum HERE stating "Paul Badura-Skoda, Paul (forte-piano Johann Schantz, Vienna ca. 1790)" from 2005, and one that you had a response although not stating any information (or agreeing) about the type of piano used - the mystery continues (and labels are different?) - 

On Amazon, Scott Morrison describing the box pictured below states "these performances were recorded on one that he owns, a 1790 piano built in Vienna by Johann Schantz, which was just one year before Mozart's death. So there is every reason to believe that Mozart himself played on similar pianos. " (HERE) - now did Badura-Skoda record 'complete' sets of the Mozart Piano Sonatas more than once? 

Finally, there is a short review by Jed Distler stating "I compared the performances to Badura-Skoda's 1979-81 counterparts on a modern concert grand (issued on Eurodisc, and now out of print)." (on ClassicsToday HERE, implying that the performances on Eurodisc are on a modern piano).

Now, I'm not sure; but, appears that this pianist has recorded these sonatas more than once and on two different types of pianos - I suspect that the Eurodisc recordings are on the modern piano - hope that others may provide enlightenment?  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - now this is becoming mysterious! 

Dave,
Well this box pictured is certainly played on a 1790 Schantz owned by Badura-Skoda. I have it at hand as I type. It says the original copyright is 1990, and I believe that is the recording date also. Now, the Eurodisc box, which I also have at hand as I type, gives the original recording dates as November, 1979 - April, 1981. It says below that "Paul Badura-Skoda, Piano (which was what got me started looking around after my ears started twitching ). Also it is 5 disks and the Naive is 6 disks. So Scott is describing the 2nd cycle, and Distler the 1st. Before I purchased the Naive cycle, I had been looking around for it for several years. Around the turn of the millennium, there were a very few Astrée single disks floating around. Of course, Naive and Astrée are sister labels, and I believe that around 2006 (Mozart 250th birthday), they collected those singles into a box and re-released them on Naive. Good thing, the 2 or 3 singles I found were going for $75-100, and the box was $35.




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Now playing:
Quatuor Terpsycordes - D 804 Quartet in a for Strings 4th mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Leon]

Listening right now to Mozart Piano Trios on BIS, the Arion Trio -



And was wondering if anyone has heard the Mozartean Players with these works on PI?  Or any other PI recordings of them out there?

[DavidW]

Listening right now to Mozart Piano Trios on BIS, the Arion Trio -



And was wondering if anyone has heard the Mozartean Players with these works on PI?  Or any other PI recordings of them out there?

I like the recording that you're listening to (Arion Trio).  As for the Mozartean Players, I didn't like them when I heard them but I'm willing to try again.  We've discussed this before and all of the HIPsters seem to love the Mozartean Players.

[Leon]

I like the recording that you're listening to (Arion Trio).  As for the Mozartean Players, I didn't like them when I heard them but I'm willing to try again.  We've discussed this before and all of the HIPsters seem to love the Mozartean Players.

Also, toñito alerted me to a 5-CD set (PI) of Mozart's chamber music by the Smithson String Quartet which may have these works; won't know until the box arrives.  I had forgotten about ordering that set when I posted above.

[asin]B000H6SU9U[/asin]

A great deal, 5 discs for under $15.00 - if you want PI set of Mozart SQ.

[DavidW]

Thanks Leon, I never got that QM set so this will be awesome!  Ordered.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks Leon, I never got that QM set so this will be awesome!  Ordered.

Yep, that's exactly the box that I mentioned to you once before. It is very fine.

As for the Mozartean Players, I like them pretty well. Lubin is a good fortepianist. I have the complete piano trios both by them and by the London Mozart Players on Hyperion. It's a toss-up, they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

None of which is to say that I don't enjoy the BAT from time to time.

[SonicMan46]

Listening right now to Mozart Piano Trios on BIS, the Arion Trio -

 

And was wondering if anyone has heard the Mozartean Players with these works on PI?  Or any other PI recordings of them out there?

Well, I've not heard the Arion Trio, but I've own the Lubin 2-CD set for years (and actually my only recording of these works so I must enjoy - also have their recordings of the Piano Quartets) - but, could always used an additional performance, PI or not! 

Concerning the Smithson String Quartet offering, which I also own - does NOT include the trios, mainly string quartets & a few quintets (plus sever other chamber works).