Author Topic: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)  (Read 188515 times)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #840 on: December 23, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »
Does Mozart opera performance in HIP mean the tenor males get 'castratoed'?

Who's signing up?  :o

:D  No, actually the castrati parts were mezzo-soprano or contralto, not really a tenor thing. Mozart's used a castrato in Idomeneo in Munich in 1780. Note that his next (and final) opera seria was La Clemenza di Tito in 1791, the castrato was Domenico Bedini who died in 1795. That opera was not something that Mozart really wanted to do, but it was for the Imperial Coronation (Leopold II) so he had to do it. The part has been sung by a woman in drag ever since, as far as I know (it was in every version I've seen).

Somewhere there is a recording (available on line, IIRC) of the last known true castrato who died right around 1900. You could sense the power in his voice even with that crude recording equipment!

8) 

PS - Oh, you were just kidding?   ::)  :)
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Offline ChamberNut

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #841 on: December 23, 2012, 05:56:35 PM »
:D  No, actually the castrati parts were mezzo-soprano or contralto, not really a tenor thing. Mozart's used a castrato in Idomeneo in Munich in 1780. Note that his next (and final) opera seria was La Clemenza di Tito in 1791, the castrato was Domenico Bedini who died in 1795. That opera was not something that Mozart really wanted to do, but it was for the Imperial Coronation (Leopold II) so he had to do it. The part has been sung by a woman in drag ever since, as far as I know (it was in every version I've seen).

Somewhere there is a recording (available on line, IIRC) of the last known true castrato who died right around 1900. You could sense the power in his voice even with that crude recording equipment!

8) 

PS - Oh, you were just kidding?   ::)  :)

Yes!!  :D  I actually thought they banned castrato prior to Mozart's time, but I learn something new every day. 

Sounds like a name of a Hollywood movie or TV series:   The Last Castrato
Location:  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #842 on: December 23, 2012, 06:36:45 PM »
Yes!!  :D  I actually thought they banned castrato prior to Mozart's time, but I learn something new every day. 

Sounds like a name of a Hollywood movie or TV series:   The Last Castrato

[Rod Serling-esque voiceover]
They called him Guido.
His voice could shatter glass while at the same time melting your heart away.
He made millions while ballsy singers starved.
The looks, the Voice... he was; The Last Castrato
 
:)

8)
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Offline milk

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #843 on: February 10, 2013, 08:18:56 AM »
New Bezuidenhout:

Offline San Antone

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #844 on: May 10, 2013, 01:58:04 AM »
I wasn't aware of this recording, which appears to be OOP but available from sellers as well as a mp3:



I am listening on MOG.  This disc includes Kvs. 296, 379, 376,and 380.


On a first listen it sounds good, and I am wondering if other volumes are planned?

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #845 on: May 10, 2013, 06:30:40 AM »
I wasn't aware of this recording, which appears to be OOP but available from sellers as well as a mp3:



I am listening on MOG.  This disc includes Kvs. 296, 379, 376,and 380.


On a first listen it sounds good, and I am wondering if other volumes are planned?
Agreed. Very interesting CD
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #846 on: June 22, 2013, 11:23:43 AM »


Just finished listening to this disk after several years; I had totally forgotten what a wonderful performance it is! The sacred cantata Davidde Penitente which Mozart assembled for the Friends of Music's annual fundraiser is actually built from the pieces of the Great c minor Mass, with a couple of pieces added. It is for orchestra and chorus, with 2 sopranos and a tenor. In the world of recorded music it is quite a rarely offered piece, and I am delighted to have such a splendid rendition of it.

The motet Ave Verum Corpus was composed a few short months before his death, his last piece of sacred music excepting the unfinished Requiem. It is for 4 solo voices, chorus and a Vienna style church standard group of 2 violins, double bass and organ. It would be sung at the Offertory on Corpus Christi Sunday, but sounds great here on a Saturday afternoon too!  I have a few versions of this, but none better!  This is a disk to have at the giveaway price I find on Amazon Marketplace!  :)

8)
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Offline Roberto

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #847 on: July 08, 2013, 10:25:28 AM »
Sounds like a name of a Hollywood movie or TV series:   The Last Castrato
The last castrato: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-S3uoeTXg

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #848 on: July 24, 2013, 02:02:59 AM »
There's a live record of the Dissonance Quartet from the Festetics on syphonyshare, a concert in 2001. Take it if you can, it's interesting, very transparent, a real sense of conversation, very gay, wonderful cello and quite unlike any other KV465 I can remember. Somehow I'd always thought that angst free mozart performances were old fashioned in 2001, but the Festetics performance manages to avoid any stress without being at all complacent or boring, maybe because whatever they're doing, they're doing far more than just making a slick sound.

There must be a distinctive Hungarian school of cello playing, they all sound wonderful and different.

Quite a contrast with the Kuijken's studio record, who seem flat and dull by comparison to this live.

Was the studio record like this, I don't have it any more to check? It comes with a Haydn op 55/3 which I haven't heard yet.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 02:14:15 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Opus106

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #849 on: July 24, 2013, 02:20:30 AM »
There's a live record of the Dissonance Quartet from the Festetics on syphonyshare, a concert in 2001. Take it if you can, it's interesting, very transparent, a real sense of conversation, very gay, wonderful cello and quite unlike any other KV465 I can remember. Somehow I'd always thought that angst free mozart performances were old fashioned in 2001, but the Festetics performance manages to avoid any stress without being at all complacent or boring, maybe because whatever they're doing, they're doing far more than just making a slick sound.

There must be a distinctive Hungarian school of cello playing, they all sound wonderful and different.

Quite a contrast with the Kuijken's studio record, who seem flat and dull by comparison to this live.

Was the studio record like this, I don't have it any more to check? It comes with a Haydn op 55/3 which I haven't heard yet.

And I've heard only the Haydn so far. Did you particularly notice any intonation issues in the Mozart? I though it was quite bad in the Haydn to the point of being distracting at times (during a first listen, anyway).
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #850 on: July 24, 2013, 02:31:24 AM »
And I've heard only the Haydn so far. Did you particularly notice any intonation issues in the Mozart? I though it was quite bad in the Haydn to the point of being distracting at times (during a first listen, anyway).

No, but I wouldn't, I've got a terrible sense of these things. I'll listen to the Haydn tonight.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #851 on: July 24, 2013, 03:38:07 AM »
And I've heard only the Haydn so far. Did you particularly notice any intonation issues in the Mozart? I though it was quite bad in the Haydn to the point of being distracting at times (during a first listen, anyway).

I have heard this before.  For now, let's say it is an accurate statement:  if given a choice I would rather hear a performance of a string quartet with some intonation issues but otherwise exhibiting exciting playing, and stylistic flare than one with perfect intonation but otherwise a bland performance.

Offline Opus106

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #852 on: July 24, 2013, 04:57:12 AM »
I have heard this before.  For now, let's say it is an accurate statement:  if given a choice I would rather hear a performance of a string quartet with some intonation issues but otherwise exhibiting exciting playing, and stylistic flare than one with perfect intonation but otherwise a bland performance.

And I would look out for one with good intonation and non-bland playing. (I don't understand why you would restrict yourself to those two choices. ;)) I can offer them some leeway, as this was a live performance, but to have it as a calling card of sorts seems silly. I remember reading similar comments about their recordings, which if I'm not mistaken were made in the studio, but I haven't listened to any of it.
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline San Antone

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #853 on: July 24, 2013, 05:28:33 AM »
And I would look out for one with good intonation and non-bland playing. (I don't understand why you would restrict yourself to those two choices. ;)) I can offer them some leeway, as this was a live performance, but to have it as a calling card of sorts seems silly. I remember reading similar comments about their recordings, which if I'm not mistaken were made in the studio, but I haven't listened to any of it.

I don't limit myself to those two choices, but was making a comment to the effect that there are worse things than intonation problems here and there.  That said, concerning the Festetics Haydn (I don't think I've heard any Mozart by them), I have not noticed any intonation problems worth mentioning.   

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #854 on: July 24, 2013, 06:03:09 AM »
The point is, that in the live record at least, the Festetics do something nteresting with the music, revealing in fact. Other quartets may reveal other thngs, and they may hit the right notes more frequently.

The issue of intonation, I think it's a completely superficial aspect of the performance. I don't care about intonation, becauae the message gets through even if they don't play the right notes.
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Offline milk

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #855 on: October 15, 2013, 09:50:40 PM »
Recently I've been listening to some Mozart PC recordings: Schoonderwoerd has grown on me (I didn't like it at first). I now have his two releases with Cristofori. I really wish Bezuidenhout and Freiburger Barockorchester would issue another release. It seems like Freiburger can do no wrong. Right now there is just the one: with 17 and 22. I've been eying the Brautigam series lately (I already have Immerseel and Levin). I'm most interested in Mozart performed with small-ish ensembles. Anyway, I saw one review that panned the Brautigam series and one praising it. I'm curious what people think of this series. What are its merits and weaknesses? I also have a, possibly silly, question: Does anyone know the difference in the size of the various ensembles? Die Kölner Akademie, Cristofori, Anima, Freiburger, AAM - I'd love to know about the number of players used for the Mozart recordings. Are they all about the same? Or would they vary? I guess instrumentation is specified in the score so does that mean ensembles follow this and are similar in size? 

Offline Roberto

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #856 on: October 16, 2013, 06:19:55 AM »
Die Kölner Akademie, Cristofori, Anima, Freiburger, AAM - I'd love to know about the number of players used for the Mozart recordings. Are they all about the same? Or would they vary? I guess instrumentation is specified in the score so does that mean ensembles follow this and are similar in size?
Instrumentation of Mozart piano concertos is an interesting question IMHO. Mozart used the available instruments for one performance. For example the 9th concerto performed at Salzburg. There were no cellos there so the original score doesn't contain cello part as far as I know (Hogwoood used this version with 3 basses instead of the normal 2). Mozart composed the 11th 12th and 13th concertos in Vienna and he hoped that he can earn more money with a transcription for piano and string quartet because more people could play this version. So there is a chamber and an orchestral version also written by Mozart himself. In another case if one night there was no timpani player at the hall he didn't wrote timpani in the score but if another night there was timpani player, he modified the score and added timpani part and so on. So the instrumentation is not fully fixed for every Mozart piano concerto.
The Hogwood/Levin and Gardiner/Bilson album booklets contain the instrumentation for the concertos they recorded.
I like Mozart's piano sonatas by Brautigam but I wasn't impressed by his piano concerto recordings. These are not bad but nothing special compared to Bilson, Levin or Staier.

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #857 on: October 16, 2013, 06:30:58 AM »
The issue of intonation, I think it's a completely superficial aspect of the performance. I don't care about intonation, becauae the message gets through even if they don't play the right notes.

Huh?   :o

Offline (poco) Sforzando

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #858 on: October 16, 2013, 06:45:53 AM »
Huh?   :o

Indeed. "I don't play accurately—any one can play accurately—but I play with wonderful expression."
 - Algernon in "The Importance of Being Earnest"
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Offline milk

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #859 on: October 16, 2013, 06:46:23 AM »
Instrumentation of Mozart piano concertos is an interesting question IMHO. Mozart used the available instruments for one performance. For example the 9th concerto performed at Salzburg. There were no cellos there so the original score doesn't contain cello part as far as I know (Hogwoood used this version with 3 basses instead of the normal 2). Mozart composed the 11th 12th and 13th concertos in Vienna and he hoped that he can earn more money with a transcription for piano and string quartet because more people could play this version. So there is a chamber and an orchestral version also written by Mozart himself. In another case if one night there was no timpani player at the hall he didn't wrote timpani in the score but if another night there was timpani player, he modified the score and added timpani part and so on. So the instrumentation is not fully fixed for every Mozart piano concerto.
The Hogwood/Levin and Gardiner/Bilson album booklets contain the instrumentation for the concertos they recorded.
I like Mozart's piano sonatas by Brautigam but I wasn't impressed by his piano concerto recordings. These are not bad but nothing special compared to Bilson, Levin or Staier.

I haven't listened to this in a while but I liked it the last time I tried. It's Richard Burnett & The Finchcocks String Quartet playing the piano and string quartet versions of 11 and 13. I haven't seen any other HIP versions. I didn't know there was 12 also.