Van der Graaf Generator

Mirror Image · May 10, 2014, 06:32:13 PM

An eye-opening trip to San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury during the summer of 1967 inspired British-born drummer Chris Judge Smith to compose a list of possible names for the rock group he wished to form. Upon his return to Manchester University, he began performing with singer/songwriter Peter Hammill and keyboardist Nick Peame; employing one of the names from Judge Smith's list, the band dubbed itself Van der Graaf Generator (after a machine which creates static electricity), eventually earning an intense cult following as one of the era's preeminent art rock groups.

Despite the early involvement of Judge Smith and Peame, the group found true success as a vehicle for Hammill, whose dark, existentialist lyrics made him the focus of considerable attention. After the release of the 1968 single "People You Were Going To," Judge Smith left Van der Graaf Generator, which by then consisted of Hammill, keyboardist Hugh Banton, bassist Keith Ellis and drummer Guy Evans. The group soon split, and in 1968 Hammill entered the studio, ostensibly to record a solo album; however, he ultimately called in his ex-bandmates for assistance, and when The Aerosol Grey Machine appeared, it did so under the Van der Graaf Generator name.

Although Ellis was replaced by Nic Potter and woodwind player David Jackson, the reconstituted group continued on for 1970's Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other. After 1970's H to He, Who Am the Only One, Potter departed; the Generator recorded one more LP, 1971's Pawn Hearts, before Hammill left for a solo career, putting an end to the group. After five solo efforts, however, Hammill again re-formed Van der Graaf Generator in 1975 for Godbluff. Following a pair of 1976 albums, Still Life and World Record, Banton and Jackson exited; as simply Van der Graaf, the band recorded The Quiet Zone with new violinist Graham Smith. After a 1978 live set, Vital, the group officially disbanded, although most members made appearances on Hammill's subsequent solo records.

Twice during the '90s, Van der Graaf reunited for one-off gigs, and in 2005 released a reunion album, Present. Without Jackson, the trio of Hammill, Banton, and Evans recorded Trisector, which appeared in 2008. They appeared in concert frequently during 2009, and released another studio album, A Grounding in Numbers, in 2011. An album of studio jams and outtakes, titled ALT, followed one year later.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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I think this band needs it's own thread. They're that good. It seems that Peter Hammill is the dominate force in the band having wrote most of the songs, but VDGG wouldn't be what this band is without the contributions from David Jackson, Hugh Banton, and Guy Evans. Anyway, please feel free to talk about your favorite VDGG albums and songs. I'm just starting to get familiar with their music, so for those more knowledgeable about their music, this will be an education for me.

EigenUser · May 10, 2014, 06:36:42 PM

My (awesome) high school physics teacher would often turn on the van de Graff generator for us to play with at the end of class. Fun times...

I'm afraid that is the most I will be able to contribute to this thread.

Mirror Image · May 10, 2014, 06:45:24 PM

Quote from: EigenUser on May 10, 2014, 06:36:42 PM
My (awesome) high school physics teacher would often turn on the van de Graff generator for us to play with at the end of class. Fun times...

I'm afraid that is the most I will be able to contribute to this thread.

And now back to the music...

NJ Joe · May 10, 2014, 07:15:01 PM

Interesting about the single "People You Were Going To". That song is on Peter Hammill's 1974 release, "Nadir's Big Chance". Didn't realize it was from 1968.

Mirror Image · May 10, 2014, 07:21:55 PM

Quote from: NJ Joe on May 10, 2014, 07:15:01 PM
Interesting about the single "People You Were Going To". That song is on Peter Hammill's 1974 release, "Nadir's Big Chance". Didn't realize it was from 1968.

Peter Hammill's solo work is a whole world I haven't even touched yet. I'm still the early stages of VDGG. Since this VDGG is obvious Hammill related, do you have any favorites from his solo discography?

Mirror Image · May 10, 2014, 07:36:40 PM

Here's a cool song from Godbluff, although the whole album is fantastic:

http://www.youtube.com/v/s_o5tMza1og

I love the way this song opens with those off-kilter rhythms. Does anyone know what kind of time signature this could be? A friend of mine described VDGG as 'gothic horror prog rock.' That's a pretty apt description.

Henk · May 11, 2014, 04:02:35 AM

Good initiative, John. Didn't I tell you they are good?

I liked their two latest albums, A grounding in numbers and ALT. I also like Hammill & Lucas' album Other World.

Henk

NJ Joe · May 11, 2014, 04:12:20 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2014, 07:21:55 PM
Peter Hammill's solo work is a whole world I haven't even touched yet. I'm still the early stages of VDGG. Since this VDGG is obvious Hammill related, do you have any favorites from his solo discography?

Yes, I like The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, In Camera, Nadir's Big Chance, The Future Now, and Sitting Targets. I recently purchased A Black Box on CD and need to reappraise it. Hammill's solo discography is vast, and there are many albums I've never heard. One only has so much time! The ones I mentioned are all from his early output, and Silent Corner and In Camera, are probably more VDGG than solo. Over is also very popular, but I never really cared for it.

edit: Silent Corner and In Camera include the other memebers of VDGG, while The Future Now and going forward are more stripped down, true solo efforts.

Mirror Image · May 11, 2014, 06:11:30 AM

Quote from: Henk on May 11, 2014, 04:02:35 AM
Good initiative, John. Didn't I tell you they are good?

I liked their two latest albums, A grounding in numbers and ALT. I also like Hammill & Lucas' album Other World.

Henk

I'm not sure if you told me they were a good band, but I've known of VDGG at least since 1998 or so. I heard ALT isn't very good and I've read many mixed reviews on A Grounding In Numbers. One problem I have with these recent albums without even listening to them is the fact that David Jackson aren't on these albums with the exception of Present, which sees the classic lineup reunited. Anyway, for me, Jackson's absence would be like having Genesis without Tony Banks. He's that crucial to their sound IMHO.

Mirror Image · May 11, 2014, 06:13:01 AM

Quote from: NJ Joe on May 11, 2014, 04:12:20 AM
Yes, I like The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, In Camera, Nadir's Big Chance, The Future Now, and Sitting Targets. I recently purchased A Black Box on CD and need to reappraise it. Hammill's solo discography is vast, and there are many albums I've never heard. One only has so much time! The ones I mentioned are all from his early output, and Silent Corner and In Camera, are probably more VDGG than solo. Over is also very popular, but I never really cared for it.

edit: Silent Corner and In Camera include the other memebers of VDGG, while The Future Now and going forward are more stripped down, true solo efforts.

Thanks for the feedback, NJ Joe. I'll check these out. I'm especially interested in The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage as this one has appeared on many 'favorites' lists.

NJ Joe · May 11, 2014, 07:49:08 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 11, 2014, 06:13:01 AM
Thanks for the feedback, NJ Joe. I'll check these out. I'm especially interested in The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage as this one has appeared on many 'favorites' lists.

You're welcome, and please call me Joe! I'll discuss VDGG in more detail later on or tomorrow, after I've completed my Mother's Day duties.

Henk · May 11, 2014, 08:23:50 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 11, 2014, 06:11:30 AM
I'm not sure if you told me they were a good band, but I've known of VDGG at least since 1998 or so. I heard ALT isn't very good and I've read many mixed reviews on A Grounding In Numbers. One problem I have with these recent albums without even listening to them is the fact that David Jackson aren't on these albums with the exception of Present, which sees the classic lineup reunited. Anyway, for me, Jackson's absence would be like having Genesis without Tony Banks. He's that crucial to their sound IMHO.

Over ten years you might think differently.

Mirror Image · May 11, 2014, 09:22:12 AM

Quote from: NJ Joe on May 11, 2014, 07:49:08 AM
You're welcome, and please call me Joe! I'll discuss VDGG in more detail later on or tomorrow, after I've completed my Mother's Day duties.

Cool, Joe.

I look forward to your post.

Klaze · May 12, 2014, 10:41:21 AM

Nice topic. Huge fan of Van der Graaf Generator and the Peter Hammill solo works (atleast what i have explored so far), which I am listening to even more than the VdGG output at the moment.
I second the recommendation for The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, it has a bit of everything: A louse is not a Home and Forsaken Gardens are very much in the vein of VdGG, lengthy prog songs.
Red shift is a spacy track featuring a very Fripp-like guitar. And then there are more singer/songwriter-like songs like Wilhelmina, Rubicon, and the super-intense The Lie.

Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night also has a good mix of different types of songs, although i rate it slightly below Silent corner and the Empy Stage.
I also like Over (moving away from VdGG-sound, but containing very touching works like "This side of the Looking Glass" and "Time Heals") and Nadir's Big Chance (more straightforward and rocking, but great songs, cited by some punk bands (!) as an influence IIRC)

I dont have clear favourites among the VdGG output. I like the Aerosol Grey Machine and the Quiet Zone/Pleasure Dome the least. Otherwise, all albums contain great stuff

Mirror Image · May 12, 2014, 10:58:26 AM

Quote from: Klaze on May 12, 2014, 10:41:21 AM
Nice topic. Huge fan of Van der Graaf Generator and the Peter Hammill solo works (atleast what i have explored so far), which I am listening to even more than the VdGG output at the moment.
I second the recommendation for The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, it has a bit of everything: A louse is not a Home and Forsaken Gardens are very much in the vein of VdGG, lengthy prog songs.
Red shift is a spacy track featuring a very Fripp-like guitar. And then there are more singer/songwriter-like songs like Wilhelmina, Rubicon, and the super-intense The Lie.

Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night also has a good mix of different types of songs, although i rate it slightly below Silent corner and the Empy Stage.
I also like Over (moving away from VdGG-sound, but containing very touching works like "This side of the Looking Glass" and "Time Heals") and Nadir's Big Chance (more straightforward and rocking, but great songs, cited by some punk bands (!) as an influence IIRC)

I dont have clear favourites among the VdGG output. I like the Aerosol Grey Machine and the Quiet Zone/Pleasure Dome the least. Otherwise, all albums contain great stuff

Great to hear, Klaze! Thanks for your feedback. I bought Silent Corner and the Empty Stage yesterday. This was also recommended to me by NJ Joe, plus, as I mentioned before, I've seen many people recommend it, so I'm quite anxious to give it a spin. What I can say I love about VdGG is how the music is so brooding, intense, and darkly hued. Of course, I've only heard Godbluff right now, so I can't comment on the other albums, but a friend of mine, who is a huge VdGG fan, said I should listen to either Pawn Hearts or Still Life next. He mentioned this was when the band was in peak form. If Godbluff has been any indication, I'll certainly take his word for it.

Mirror Image · May 12, 2014, 11:23:37 AM

Another thing I would like to point out about VdGG is they were definitely coming from a completely different angle than most progressive bands during the '70s. Here was this guy (Hammill) yammering away while underneath his vocals this machine is grinding away at some of the most menacing rhythms you'll hear in rock music. The fact that the band isn't 'guitar oriented' is also apart of their appeal for me, because it isn't apart of their sound world at all and instead what you have is the sound world being augmented by saxophone or flute and a keyboardist who is running his organ (Hammond E112) through all kinds of effects such as phasers, reverbs, tape echo, distortion, overdrive, etc. It also helps that their drummer is top-notch. He definitely gets a nod here for being able to navigate through all of these odd time signatures.

Klaze · May 12, 2014, 11:24:32 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2014, 10:58:26 AM
Great to hear, Klaze! Thanks for your feedback. I bought Silent Corner and the Empty Stage yesterday. This was also recommended to me by NJ Joe, plus, as I mentioned before, I've seen many people recommend it, so I'm quite anxious to give it a spin. What I can say I love about VdGG is how the music is so brooding, intense, and darkly hued. Of course, I've only heard Godbluff right now, so I can't comment on the other albums, but a friend of mine, who is a huge VdGG fan, said I should listen to either Pawn Hearts or Still Life next. He mentioned this was when the band was in peak form. If Godbluff has been any indication, I'll certainly take his word for it.

Pawn Hearts is perhaps the most ambitious and far-out of the albums, it has a really twisted atmosphere. I love it, and am actually surprised that it is usually is listed as their best (i think it's the least accessible).
If you liked Godbluff, you will also like Still Life, rest assured.

And yes, intense is the right word for VdGG.

Mirror Image · May 12, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: Klaze on May 12, 2014, 11:24:32 AM

Pawn Hearts is perhaps the most ambitious and far-out of the albums, it has a really twisted atmosphere. I love it, and am actually surprised that it is usually is listed as their best (i think it's the least accessible).
If you liked Godbluff, you will also like Still Life, rest assured.

And yes, intense is the right word for VdGG.

'Far out' and 'twisted' are two adjectives I love when talking about progressive rock.

What do you think of VdGG's early output?

Mirror Image · May 12, 2014, 11:55:22 AM

Quote from: Henk on May 11, 2014, 08:23:50 AM
Over ten years you might think differently.

I doubt it. The combination of saxophone/flute of Jackson with Hugh Banton's keyboard work is a trademark of VdGG's sound. Without the two it's like eating a cookie that has no flavor whatsoever. Jackson gives the band it's lyrical content, because, otherwise, you have quite a dense sounding band without that instrument that gives a voice to the melodies.

NJ Joe · May 12, 2014, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: Klaze on May 12, 2014, 11:24:32 AM

Pawn Hearts is perhaps the most ambitious and far-out of the albums, it has a really twisted atmosphere. I love it, and am actually surprised that it is usually is listed as their best (i think it's the least accessible).
If you liked Godbluff, you will also like Still Life, rest assured.

And yes, intense is the right word for VdGG.

It took me longer to get into Pawn Hearts than any other VDGG album, but after I did it became not only my favorite VDGG, but one of my favorite albums, period. It's probably in my top ten (non-classical). Still Life was the first VDGG album I really liked, so much so that for a long time I listened to nothing else of theirs.

I like H To He, Pawn Hearts, Godbluff, and Still Life above all others, with The Least We Can Do and World Record just behind. Aerosol and Quiet Zone are good as well. I've yet to hear Trisector or Grounding In Numbers.

I've also read about punk rockers citing Nadir's Big Chance as an influence and I read that John Lydon cited The Least We Can Do as an influence.