UKIP Idiocy

[Ken B]

Yeah.  Me too.  But many Native Americans would rather not assimilate, but have their land back--another bucket of worms and an elephant in the room!

I'm sorry to sound harsh here, but this -- treating groups and ancestry as what is real and important -- is what you claim to be condemning.

[Sef]

The question with UKIP is whether they are racists in sheep's clothing. Farage keeps denying that he is a racist, but there can be no denying that UKIP attracts the unsavoury few who would blame the ills of the country on immigrants. Visiting the UK, I spoke to a number of people prior to the elections who were contemplating voting UKIP (and I was surprised because ordinarily I would think that even possibly being seen as racist would be taboo in England - it was when I lived there), but the reason they gave was that there were too many people in England already, and that there was no more room. England already has a very high population density, the smallest houses of any country in Europe, and no one wanted to see more building on Green Field sites. The get out clause that Farage insists that UKIP is not a racist party was enough to get the votes. My fear though is that this is how it starts - and we all know where it can lead.

[ibanezmonster]

But what do you mean by poured money into the process? Set up non-Swedish language schooling? My point is that programs that purport to "ease the transition" etc., often impede assimilation.

I always wondered what would happen if the US and Europe took the same stance as Japan on immigration. You know there would be tons of people from poor countries going there if they could, but let's see the possible ways you can live there:

1) marriage
2) military
3) be famous
4) have a bachelor's and work as an English teacher (be a native English speaker or you'll be at a significant disadvantage in finding a job)
5) have a bachelor's and work at a job doing your trade and know Japanese well enough to compete with other Japanese trying to get the same job. Oh, and have fun learning Japanese, especially if you don't know English. Actually, I wouldn't recommend anyone to study Japanese without knowing English first, so you'll have to be trilingual if you are a non-native English speaker in this scenario.

There's no such thing as just learning the language and deciding to work at McDonalds, construction, etc. you have to be highly educated. And if you're from a poor country, well, good luck getting the education. And that's why there are so few immigrants there from poor countries. Many of those that do get in probably find some odd way that I'm not aware of...

What does everyone think about the hypothetical scenario of the US, Canada and all of Europe adopting these types of requirements for immigration? If they did, there would probably be riots everywhere and the words "racist" and "xenophobic" being used more times than there are atoms in the universe. 

[Ten thumbs]

Whilst I'm very much against Nigel Farage and his policies, the real reason for his popularity has nothing to do with race. Concerns about immigration are centred rather on pressures on housing, services and in many people's minds, on jobs.
From my perspective, I'm happy with immigration except that we in Britain are already a crowded country and, although we can build as many houses as needed, they require land. This is most often green fields and - WE ARE SHORT OF AGRICULTURAL LAND.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

Funny how often economics is used to legitimize all manner of viewpoints and perspectives that run counter to human civility and understanding.  "Not racism, but..."  Perhaps $ should be done away with altogether like on Star Trek.  So, what is the consensus here?:  out of this boiling cauldron of issues and complexities are we headed toward resolution or other holocausts of which the human race is so fond?  Times like these make me wish I could pilot my own spaceship to a new, more sensible planet - hey, just like immigrants feel they are doing!   

[snyprrr]

Sweden is one of the nations in Europe that have accepted most refugees and immigrants per capita. As far as I am concerned the effort is admirable!

It's NOT admirable. It's idiocy. What that video showed is that The Wandering Ones are taking the leading role in diluting the natural heritage of Sweden. Swedes have been turned into pussies- you can't even debate the immigration policy or you risk jail- 23% of Swedish women are in fear of being raped by a non-white immigrant (muzz).

No, it's not admirable,- UNLESS the Swedes send tens of thousands of pale asses to deepest darkest Africa as an exchange. Fact is, NO ONE is MultiCulti immigration in AFRICA!!!!- HUH??? Where's the lutefisk stand in the Congo? Where's the funtabulists in Kenya?? That's Racism!!!!

This is How Stupid the Swedish Royals are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl1GYPO3g10


Why does it appear as though the jews are leading this immigration surge into sweden? jews are notorious for not allowing their own heritage to dilute... blanda up!! (this is a saying in swedish which means- hey white swede, it's cool to hook up with africans)

backlash coming


I don't know if you misread my reason for posting that Lerner video- it's NOT a good thing, what she says in that video- keep in mind- she's an American jew who went to Sweden to do this.


My relatives there say they are no longer considered "swedes"= no= that is reserved for those freshly arrived, doncha kno.

moonie- please, just ask yourself- if this multiculti thing was so great, why isn't Africa becoming integrated? Why is it only First World countries that have to "integrate"?- and, with the dregs of immigration no less.

It's not like they're importing rocket scientists, right?


come On- give me a break-... it's NOT a "good thing". Ghettos? Non-assimilation? Welfare?


It's funny, the countries all these folks come from have quite different immigration policies that of the "just come on in" types. Crashing by design?

[snyprrr]

Why don't all the bleeding hearts move to Africa and help them get out of their doldrums?,- go to the source, instead of bringing  the source to your doorstep.


Does anyone here at GMG live in a muslim ghetto? ANYONE? any ghetto... any one...


It's like the 6yo who just KNOWS she's a boy...  ...


It seems that WHOMEVER wrote the Protocols knew how to predict the future.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_and_the_Jews



Oh, this "Intolerance of Intolerance"!



Also, keep in mind what it means that the so-called white supreme group 'StormFront' is actually based in West Palm Beach, Fla. You know what that means, don't you? Let it sink in.


Sorry, but we're living in Orwellian times, - I mean, just typing the word 'Orwellian' prolly gets me tagged by our Sacred Leader's Apparatus- so, I surely care not for Vanderbilt niceties, and will probably bring the fiery language to the podium from now on. War is surely coming- in some form (already economic)- so, just keep in mind who were the first to 'Disappear' when the Totalitarians came into power.


Surely, I will end up on a spit before I put someone on a spit.

I've seen what happens when you yank the "nicey" veneer off a flaming lib-tard (socialist patsy). Lib-tards want to eat your liver and kill your unborn and erase your very memory from the history books. They WANT you to die slow, horribly painful deaths.

and btw- in the USA- Repubs AND Democr are BOTH flamingly ONE PARTY of Ajenda 21. There is NO ONE is the USA who will ever do anything to turn anything around- ever! They all went to Harvard/Ivy, they all know the 'secret handshake club', many  have dual citizenship with THAT ONE COUNTRY (and only that one country)- they all have oil friends, or bank friends, or whatever... so, just in case you were ready just to call me a 'republican'- oy vey!!


Please, just keep in mind that all "the West" is doing is trying to make the rest of the world safe for compound interest.


I have narrowed it to the three 'entities' that probably run the world:

1) Papacy/Jesuits
2) Talmudists
3) ChiComm

Tell me, out of these three, who bows to whom? Who really rules us? Who's got the fat cash stack that they're blackmailing the world with?








another banner snyprrr Post!                

[snyprrr]

Times like these make me wish I could pilot my own spaceship to a new, more sensible planet - hey, just like immigrants feel they are doing!

Don't worry, the originators of compound interest WILL find you, and you WILL set up a RothchildCentralBank on your planet- or else!

If you don't import "refugees" to your planet, you will have EconomicWar declared on you- you racist!!!!(that's really their only weapon- calling people names)

Where are the refugees from Iceland?

[snyprrr]

Is there a Swede in the house who can declare all the wonderful culture that has dropped like dew upon the Swedish soil since this vast immigration policy has been enacted?

[Ken B]

Funny how everyone is on about UKIP and not Marine LePen.

Anyway, no, this is not a Keep Florestan Out vote. It's a more generalized protest vote. The major parties have basically ignored concerns on sovereignty, rule by Brussels, and immigration with its consequences in a generous welfare state, and a notable lack of assimilation. These are not trivial issues.  Since the major parties won't discuss any of these issues seriously it opened up a chance for the extreme parties. That will change over time. 

[Moonfish]

Snyprrr,

You have been listening too much to the Rush Limbaugh Show - actually - perhaps you are Rush Limbaugh?   

[Florestan]

Anyway, no, this is not a Keep Florestan Out vote.

Oh, I''m sure at bottom it isn't. And in my book Farage is not a racist because he did not say "keep the Africans out!" but "keep the Romanians out!" --- and Romanians are just as indo-europeans as Britons are. What stirred my indignation was using a whole foreign nation, whose members are not quite keen on immigrating to England, as cause and root of all UK problems, which are neither few, nor unimportant.

It's a more generalized protest vote. The major parties have basically ignored concerns on sovereignty, rule by Brussels, and immigration with its consequences in a generous welfare state, and a notable lack of assimilation. These are not trivial issues.

Of course they aren't. They are actually extremely important. But it would have been more honest sloganeering on "Keep Brussels out!" . 

Since the major parties won't discuss any of these issues seriously

They don't discuss them here in Romania either, but fortunately we don't have any extreme party of notable influence, although xenophobia and EU-phobia are on the rise.

it opened up a chance for the extreme parties. That will change over time.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I'm afraid the only change will be still more votes for those parties. Unless the EU itself will change for the better, a very unlikely occurence if you ask me. Ostrich policy has been their trademark for far too long a time.

[snyprrr]

Snyprrr,

You have been listening too much to the Rush Limbaugh Show - actually - perhaps you are Rush Limbaugh?   

Limbaugh(sky) works for tellaviv just like the rest of em- once you see what he and his "enemies" have in common, it all comes in to focus a little better. All "conservatives" in media are really just... actors. Do you reeeally think Hannity is a "conservative" Or any of them??

Michael Savage = Michael Weiner hint hint

[Ken B]

Oh, I''m sure at bottom it isn't. And in my book Farage is not a racist because he did not say "keep the Africans out!" but "keep the Romanians out!" --- and Romanians are just as indo-europeans as Britons are. What stirred my indignation was using a whole foreign nation, whose members are not quite keen on immigrating to England, as cause and root of all UK problems, which are neither few, nor unimportant.

Of course they aren't. They are actually extremely important. But it would have been more honest sloganeering on "Keep Brussels out!" . 
They don't discuss them here in Romania either, but fortunately we don't have any extreme party of notable influence, although xenophobia and EU-phobia are on the rise.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I'm afraid the only change will be still more votes for those parties. Unless the EU itself will change for the better, a very unlikely occurence if you ask me. Ostrich policy has been their trademark for far too long a time.

I thought you said the socialists won?

As for change ... Political parties in the west are actually wizards at dynamic programming and opportunism. If there is a significant niche of unserved voters they will find a way, by hook or by crook, to try to appeal to them.  Either parties like UKIP will change to be more mainstream, or the more mainstream parties will filch issues and policies from UKIP. My money is on the latter. The alternative is that the major parties continue to ignore and exacerbate problems until an explosion comes. My bet is against that because the major parties may be unprincipled and foolish, but they aren't stupid. They are highly evolved survivors.
I agree about the EU not changing. But I am pretty anti-EU. Keep Brussles Out is a good slogan to me!

[kishnevi]

Oh, I''m sure at bottom it isn't. And in my book Farage is not a racist because he did not say "keep the Africans out!" but "keep the Romanians out!" --- and Romanians are just as indo-europeans as Britons are. What stirred my indignation was using a whole foreign nation, whose members are not quite keen on immigrating to England, as cause and root of all UK problems, which are neither few, nor unimportant.

Of course they aren't. They are actually extremely important. But it would have been more honest sloganeering on "Keep Brussels out!" . 
They don't discuss them here in Romania either, but fortunately we don't have any extreme party of notable influence, although xenophobia and EU-phobia are on the rise.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I'm afraid the only change will be still more votes for those parties. Unless the EU itself will change for the better, a very unlikely occurence if you ask me. Ostrich policy has been their trademark for far too long a time.

Perhaps Farage is screwed up enough to think Gypsies (Romany) are from Romania?  That level of discourse is horrifyingly typical of some political elements here, on both right and left.

[mn dave]

If Florestan is Romanian, they can't all be bad.

[Todd]

Perhaps Farage is screwed up enough to think Gypsies (Romany) are from Romania?  That level of discourse is horrifyingly typical of some political elements here, on both right and left.

Funny looking foreigners with funny sounding names who speak funny languages are easy and frequent targets for opportunistic politicians seeking to move attention away from failed economic (and other) policies.  Happens everywhere, all the time, not just in Europe and the US.  I especially enjoy when politicians explain very carefully how proposed changes to immigration policy, usually urgently needed, are not xenophobic and racist in nature.  The only thing more enjoyable is when people fall for it and then repeat it.

[Ken B]

Funny looking foreigners with funny sounding names who speak funny languages are easy and frequent targets for opportunistic politicians seeking to move attention away from failed economic (and other) policies.  Happens everywhere, all the time, not just in Europe and the US.  I especially enjoy when politicians explain very carefully how proposed changes to immigration policy, usually urgently needed, are not xenophobic and racist in nature.  The only thing more enjoyable is when people fall for it and then repeat it.

Well the good arguments are rarely economic. So that leaves bad consequences for the generous welfare state, or cultural effects. Do Canadians have a right to worry that a few million followers of the Westboro Baptist church might move to Winnipeg and demand changes in the law to suit their taste? Death to homosexuals, women stoned, prayer in school.  I surely don't want them, and I agree that is pure xenophobia. Some xeno should be phobed.

[Todd]

So that leaves bad consequences for the generous welfare state

That's an economic argument, and generally speaking a very poor one.  The harsh demographic reality for the developed world, the US only partly excepted, is that population growth rates have slowed, and economic productivity has not increased enough to offset the declines and will likely not improve enough in the future to offset declines in a meaningful way, thus requiring more immigration to maintain luxurious standards of living.

or cultural effects.

And that's the foundation for racist and xenophobic arguments.  The Westboro thing is a (presumably humorous) strawman; the hard reality is that immigration restrictions overwhelmingly target poorer people, usually from ethnically and/or religiously dissimilar countries.  People can rationalize all they want, but immigration policy often just reflects current hatreds and prejudices. 

I'm most familiar with US policy of course, and it is humorous to look back to no less a personage than Benjamin Franklin wringing his hands about the culturally deleterious effect of those swarthy Swedes and Germans.  Old Ben thought lily white was not quite white enough.  Less humorously, US policy with respect to southern Europeans (so many Catholics!), Asians (Yellow Peril!), and now, mainly, Hispanics reveal who we are scared of, or at least who we want to pretend don't help build the nation.

[Ken B]

No, I don't think the welfare thing is an economic argument. It's an objection based on a moral judgment. If at age 70 you immigrate to a new country and collect welfare that can be reasonably seen  as unfair.
Overall, in the face of low birht rates in the west, I think a generous welfare state may *require* a lot of immigration. That of course leads to other questions of morals ...

The Westboro case is humourous but there is a legitimate point. Mass immigration can cause cultural problems, and it's wrong to airily dismiss that as blanket xenophobia. Neither does it mean that restricting immigration is the only solution. As several have noted that seems more a problem in Europe than here. I think in part that's because the French are more racist than Americans, impeding the assimilation whose absence they now lament. I don't know if that is true in Sweden. I live near near Dearborn, the most muslim part of North America, and we never see car burnings or the sort of stuff you see in France.