Top10 compositions that you don't like but everyone else does

[Florestan]

That said, I don't even understand your comment on Brahms 1. It smacks you in the face with something happening in the opening bar!! And good tunes too!

I am completely and utterlty unable to hear even a hint of a melody in the first movement. It's like an overblown, solemn introduction to something that is supposed to be grand and bold but never comes out. I always shout out loud "Come on, man, cut the crap and let the whole damn thing begin, whatever it is!" and I'm always disappointed. No, really, for me this is one of the worst Firsts ever.

I do like the other three, though --- but my favorite Brahms symphony is the Serenade op. 11. 

[Florestan]

Andrei just needs to be told Brahms composed it whilst traveling in Romania. Then he'll love it. 😉

Given that not even Enescu is among my favorites, I doubt it. 

[Florestan]

Born Johannes Brahmanescu, Brahms IS Romanian!

Ion Brămescu would more like it. 

[Jo498]

There are "problems" with Brahms' first (I still love it, though), but not these. I find already the expressive oboe solo in the intro memorable, while maybe not an easily hummable melody.

The two middle movements are among Brahms' more melodic ones. The problem (and we discussed this elsewhere on this forum with amw, I think) is rather that the first movement seems almost self-contained with a resolution in the quiet coda but in spite of this Brahms wants a Beethoven-5th-like arch spanning the whole work. But unlike Beethoven's 5th (where the andante offers both some repose and prefigures the triumph of the finale, like a hopeful glimmer and the third movement is a reprise of the terror of the first) the middle movements seem "mere" intermezzi, not really connected to that dramatic-poetic arch.
And then he has to start over again with the finale conjuring up "storm clouds" to prepare for the triumph.

He totally avoids such problems in the other symphonies, though. (And while in the 2nd one could speak of "avoidance", basicall tacking two neoclassical movements on two romantic ones, the 3rd is very successful with a coherent arch from beginning to end and I also find that the 4th works well, despite not being too fond of its third mvmt.)

As for the first piano concerto the first movement also seemed to some complete in itself (like Schumann's "Konzerstücke" and the Ur-version of his piano concerto) I also love it, despite rough edges. It makes it up in tremendous energy and passion, aspects Brahms tended to subdue in later works.

[Florestan]

I am reminded of the (completely unfair) Hugo Wolf criticism of the 1st PC: One could get a flu from such cold music.

I like the 2nd more but I have no problem whatsoever with the 1st.

[mc ukrneal]

I am completely and utterlty unable to hear even a hint of a melody in the first movement. It's like an overblown, solemn introduction to something that is supposed to be grand and bold but never comes out. I always shout out loud "Come on, man, cut the crap and let the whole damn thing begin, whatever it is!" and I'm always disappointed. No, really, for me this is one of the worst Firsts ever.

I do like the other three, though --- but my favorite Brahms symphony is the Serenade op. 11. 

Well, the serenades are beautiful indeed.

[Brian]

Schubert Trout Quintet
Probably the only Schubert I don't like

I knew a guy in college who ruined the Trout Quintet for every single one of his friends by narrating a whole story about how the quintet was a literal minute-by-minute depiction of trout fishing, complete with arm gestures of "listen! He's catching the trout!" and furious tugging on an imaginary fishing pole.

I also knew a guy in college who ruined The Rite of Spring even harder and more irredeemably by telling us that it was the perfect musical depiction of his sexual fantasies and that every time he heard it, it made him think of vigorous lovemaking.

EDIT: I like The Rite, so I did not list it, but I can't listen to it because of that guy. I might listen once every 2-3 years, and it's all his fault.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

You went to school with some real weirdos.      

TD

Orchestral music in general - symphonies - concertos.  From reading GMG for several years I have been made aware of how out of step my listening is compared to most members.  I could be wrong, but the majority of GMG-ers seem to listen to orchestral music most of the time.

So pick your favorite symphony or concerto - and I won't like it.

My unscientific estimate is that I listen to orchestral music, chamber music and solo piano music in roughly equal proportions. "Heroic" romantic concertos don't really appeal to me (with a few exceptions), but I do enjoy baroque, neo-baroque and neo-classical concertos.

[Florestan]

I could be wrong, but the majority of GMG-ers seem to listen to orchestral music most of the time.

That's my impression as well. I also share your preference for chamber music and solo piano. I don't actively dislike symphonies and concertos, though --- only those that are turgid, conceited and pretend to be rather philosophy or religion than music.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

About Brahms's First... I love it. It's one of the most intoxicating depictions of victory I've ever heard of. Okay, the other movements than finale are not all that victorious but they're fine in their own right and make the ensuing victory in the last all the more impressive. And I'm not even nowadays the biggest Brahms fan there is! 

Edit: I do share Florestan's love for Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony (easily my favorite) and the Eighth even though I still enjoy his other symphonies as well.

[Ken B]

I knew a guy in college who ruined the Trout Quintet for every single one of his friends by narrating a whole story about how the quintet was a literal minute-by-minute depiction of trout fishing, complete with arm gestures of "listen! He's catching the trout!" and furious tugging on an imaginary fishing pole.

I also knew a guy in college who ruined The Rite of Spring even harder and more irredeemably by telling us that it was the perfect musical depiction of his sexual fantasies and that every time he heard it, it made him think of vigorous lovemaking.

EDIT: I like The Rite, so I did not list it, but I can't listen to it because of that guy. I might listen once every 2-3 years, and it's all his fault.

Ohhhh. Keep your eyes open for a new poll, coming soon!

[TheGSMoeller]

I also knew a guy in college who ruined The Rite of Spring even harder and more irredeemably by telling us that it was the perfect musical depiction of his sexual fantasies and that every time he heard it, it made him think of vigorous lovemaking.

EDIT: I like The Rite, so I did not list it, but I can't listen to it because of that guy. I might listen once every 2-3 years, and it's all his fault.

I do think Rite's ending always sounded a bit premature.

[Mirror Image]

TD

Orchestral music in general - symphonies - concertos.  From reading GMG for several years I have been made aware of how out of step my listening is compared to most members.  I could be wrong, but the majority of GMG-ers seem to listen to orchestral music most of the time.

So pick your favorite symphony or concerto - and I won't like it.

You don't like orchestral music because you hold onto some kind of silly notion that the genre is 'pompous', which, in turn, is a rather pompous attitude to hold. As I've said on the 'listening' thread, I love just about all genres of classical music whether it be a chamber work, solo piano, choral, ballet, etc. I'm quite certain that many of your favorite composers wrote something for the orchestra and I would suggest dropping the attitude and just letting yourself flow with the music.

[SymphonicAddict]

For me, the matter about Beethoven symphonies is more about overplayings and overrecordings, rather than the works themselves. It was the first complete cycle I've ever heard and I still love it, but I avoid playing them lately.

P.S. I too love Brahms 1st!! My 2nd favorite after the 4th.

[Jo498]

My unscientific estimate is that I listen to orchestral music, chamber music and solo piano music in roughly equal proportions. "Heroic" romantic concertos don't really appeal to me (with a few exceptions), but I do enjoy baroque, neo-baroque and neo-classical concertos.

I don't keep track (because I listen to CDs, not playlists or so) but I also think that I do not listen mainly or mostly to orchestral. The one thing I tend to listen do considerably less than in earlier times is vocal music although I love lots of pieces from choral, Lieder, opera etc.

The concerto is for me often a problematic genre, especially if it's too much dominated by the soloist and by flashy virtuoso fireworks. Still, even Paganini is o.k. once in a blue moon... And while I like the "symphonic" concertos of e.g. Brahms, one overdo this as well and Reger's or Elgar's violin concerto or the Busoni piano concerto are not exactly favorites either.

[Florestan]

For me, the matter about Beethoven symphonies is more about overplayings and overrecordings, rather than the works themselves.

This is certainly a factor but in my case not the most important one. Mozart, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff are also overplayed and overrecorded yet I dearly love their music. What I can't stand is the constant touting of Beethoven as THE revolutionary, THE hero, THE man who singlehandedly changed the music forever (usually implying for better as well), THE model for future generations, THE unsurpassable genius, THE, THE, THE [you name it]. It's almost as if all important composers before him were nothing but its heralds and all important composers after him were nothing but his followers. And all that is indeed compound by the works themselves: I find Beethoven's constant use of heroic, grand, bold, defiant etc etc etc musical topoi  in his symphonies and concertos nauseating and unbearable, a few works excluded*.

That's why I vastly prefer his chamber and solo piano output. In such intimate settings he seems to have let go his heroic posture (although not entirely) and showed his more comprehensively humane nature.

*Heck, am I teh only one to remember that Eroica was originally composed as a glorification of Napoleon and that the only change Beethoven made to it was striking the name of his former dedicatee off the score?  And then he went on to compose Wellington's Victory --- which I actually prefer over Eroica, it's in the same vein only much shorter. 

Bottom line, I acknowledge Beethoven as a great, but not the greatest, composer; I love many of his works, mostly chamber and solo piano --- but of all the composers who followed him chronologically my favorites are those who were the least, if at all, influenced by him.

[Ken B]

I do think Rite's ending always sounded a bit premature.

The ballet that fits me is Spartacus. It's 4 hours.

New poll up, inspired by this discussion.

[SymphonicAddict]

This is certainly a factor but in my case not the most important one. Mozart, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff are also overplayed and overrecorded yet I dearly love their music. What I can't stand is the constant touting of Beethoven as THE revolutionary, THE hero, THE man who singlehandedly changed the music forever (usually implying for better as well), THE model for future generations, THE unsurpassable genius, THE, THE, THE [you name it]. It's almost as if all important composers before him were nothing but its heralds and all important composers after him were nothing but his followers. And all that is indeed compound by the works themselves: I find Beethoven's constant use of heroic, grand, bold, defiant etc etc etc musical topoi  in his symphonies and concertos nauseating and unbearable, a few works excluded*.

That's why I vastly prefer his chamber and solo piano output. In such intimate settings he seems to have let go his heroic posture (although not entirely) and showed his more comprehensively humane nature.

*Heck, am I teh only one to remember that Eroica was originally composed as a glorification of Napoleon and that the only change Beethoven made to it was striking the name of his former dedicatee off the score?  And then he went on to compose Wellington's Victory --- which I actually prefer over Eroica, it's in the same vein only much shorter. 

Bottom line, I acknowledge Beethoven as a great, but not the greatest, composer; I love many of his works, mostly chamber and solo piano --- but of all the composers who followed him chronologically my favorites are those who were the least, if at all, influenced by him.

I don't like to hail any composer as this thing or that other either. They all have given their inputs to create this universe called music, if it had been little or much. In my particular case, I'm the guy who fixes more about the inherent sense of beauty from something and judging the beauty on music from many views, emotions and contexts, to and for the mere fact of enjoyment (as for this I look more pragmatical), rather than thinking this work annoys me because his creator is considered a Zeus or an Odin of music  Of course the historical, academic, geographical, even scientific side of it allures me, but it's not the most relevant factor for me. In my opinion, Wagner is clearly one of the true geniuses of Western music, and so far, I haven't felt remorse because of his ideas about mankind, Nazism links, etc. Or if I hate Rossini for its banal methods of apparent simplicity or because he supported such tyrant (in the case it were true, I'm speculating of course). What I love is music as it is, its creativity, its evolution, if it makes smile or cry or admire or long many aspects in your life, the astonishment it creates on people, its impact, the emotions one feels and the spiritual rest if offers you, catharsis, etc. Don't the philosophical-existencialist-emotional super hero  or respect for inspirating yourself or determined fixations.

I much respect your opinion. And you look to be right about the sophistication, greatness and intimacy of the chamber works and piano solo above the symphonic output. About that part I would agree with you.

[vandermolen]

New (ish) list:

Prokofiev: Classical Symphony
Rodrigo: Guitar Concerto
R. Strauss: Ein Heldenleben
Verdi's operas
Rossini operas
New Year's Day Concert from Vienna
VW: Serenade to Music
Handel: The Messiah
Schumann's symphonies
Mahler: The Song of the Earth

I know you'll all agree 

[ritter]

I mistakenly thought this was your list of the pieces you, vandermolen,  find "most moving" (the other poll) and couldn't believe my eyes!