Today is a day of National remembrance in the Netherlands.

Harry · July 22, 2014, 11:34:27 PM

The 298 people that were murdered on flight MH 17 above the Ukraine, are brought back today to Holland. Its a day of national remembrance for them. Our collective grief and anger are mingling today. Whole families, babies, often parents lost their children, the bodies were desecrated, their possessions pillaged, such disrespect is a atrocity. Justice has to be done. Among other nationalities 198 of them were Dutch, Australians, English, German, Malaysian..... They will be flown in by a Hercules plane of the Dutch military forces. Please pray for them.

The new erato · July 22, 2014, 11:48:05 PM

I know your feelings Harry and share them. Yesterday was 3 year remembrance days for the 76 youths murdered at Utøya by a delusional loser.

springrite · July 22, 2014, 11:58:04 PM

Having worked on both the Asiana crash of last year and the MH370 this year, I have been through the lives of so many families of victims and know it as well as anyone. I wish I could do more to help the families of MH17. My prayers are with them.

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 12:00:53 AM

Aboard MH17 was also a Romanian college student of Canadian citizenship, together with his Romanian girlfriend of German citizenship.

May God rest all the victims in peace, comfort the families and punish the perpetrators, because of human justice nothing is to be expected in this case.

It is the more tragic as it was an absurd lottery. Of all the planes that flew over that area, it had to be this one. And come to think about it: Malaysian Airlines lost two planes within months, both in dubious circumstances, one lost without a trace. This is a sadly unique case in the history of civil aviation.

vandermolen · July 23, 2014, 12:15:27 AM

My thoughts are with you from the Netherlands today after the terrible tragedy in the Ukraine.

Harry · July 23, 2014, 02:20:28 AM

Remember!

Henk · July 23, 2014, 03:07:38 AM

Yes, good that you let this know at this channel, Harry. I'm also in mourn. This act of terror needs to be investigated thoroughly.

Karl Henning · July 23, 2014, 03:15:25 AM

God grant peace to the departed, and comfort and succor to all who mourn them.

Harry · July 23, 2014, 03:21:33 AM

You can follow the flight of this first plane with victims live. Flight NAF 22

http://www.flightradar24.com/NAF22/3e27566

mc ukrneal · July 23, 2014, 03:41:23 AM

It's a sad day. I fear justice may be slow in coming, if it comes at all.

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 03:45:24 AM

Quote from: mc ukrneal on July 23, 2014, 03:41:23 AM
I fear justice may be slow in coming, if it comes at all.

Putin trialed by the Hague International Court of Justice. Now that's something I'd like to see.

The new erato · July 23, 2014, 04:35:53 AM

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 03:45:24 AM
Putin trialed by the Hague International Court of Justice. Now that's something I'd like to see.

Rather those orderinginitialling the shooting down. If one accused the ones giving/selling weapons to war criminals, the fat would really be in the fire.....

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 04:43:07 AM

Quote from: The new erato on July 23, 2014, 04:35:53 AM
Rather those orderinginitialling the shooting down.

They'll never be caught.

Quote
If one accused the ones giving/selling weapons to war criminals, the fat would really be in the fire.....

Putin is the moral responsible of this tragedy and his nerve in pointing to Ukrainian authorities pisses me off big time.

Karl Henning · July 23, 2014, 04:53:51 AM

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 04:43:07 AM
Putin is the moral responsible of this tragedy and his nerve in pointing to Ukrainian authorities pisses me off big time.

Classic Soviet obfuscation and string-pulling. Not that you needed me to tell you

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 05:01:37 AM

Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2014, 04:53:51 AM
Classic Soviet obfuscation and string-pulling. Not that you needed me to tell you

Indeed. Russia (whatever her disguise, Empire*, Soviet Union or Russian Federation) was, is and forever shall be a threat to peace in Europe and not only.

* Tsarist Empire is a pleonasm, since Tsar means Emperor.

The new erato · July 23, 2014, 05:36:01 AM

Quote from: Florestan on July 23, 2014, 04:43:07 AM
They'll never be caught.

Putin is the moral responsible of this tragedy and his nerve in pointing to Ukrainian authorities pisses me off big time.

Of course I agree with you, just pointing out things doesn't work that way. If some Israeli actions in Gaza (just giving an example, don't want to open that can of worms) were declared as war crimes (which there are strong voices suggesting), I just cannot see Obama being tried by the Hague (which the US anyway doesn't recognize IIRC).

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 05:47:32 AM

Quote from: The new erato on July 23, 2014, 05:36:01 AM
If some Israeli actions in Gaza (just giving an example, don't want to open that can of worms) were declared as war crimes (which there are strong voices suggesting), I just cannot see Obama being tried by the Hague (which the US anyway doesn't recognize IIRC).

I know. But Israel is a state recognized by the UN (not that I endorse all their actions, although I recognize their legitimate right to defend their citizens), while pro-Russian rebels are just a bunch of criminals.

Todd · July 23, 2014, 05:59:53 AM

Quote from: The new erato on July 23, 2014, 05:36:01 AM
Of course I agree with you, just pointing out things doesn't work that way. If some Israeli actions in Gaza (just giving an example, don't want to open that can of worms) were declared as war crimes (which there are strong voices suggesting), I just cannot see Obama being tried by the Hague (which the US anyway doesn't recognize IIRC).

Both the ICJ and ICC are in the Hague. The US is a member of the former, but not the latter, though it informally works with the ICC to help bring other leaders to trial. The US didn't join for a number of reasons, but truthfully, even if it did join, the probability of a US President being tried is nil, just as it is with a Russian leader. In order for that to happen, there would have to be a large war with one side defeated so that show trials, er, meaningful and just trials, could be carried out. As it stands now, the ICC is good for going after leaders of African thugocracies.

If anyone goes to trial over the MH17 incident, it will be some lower level patsy or patsies. Someone got away with mass murder or at least mass manslaughter.

Florestan · July 23, 2014, 06:05:42 AM

Quote from: Todd on July 23, 2014, 05:59:53 AM
The US didn't join for a number of reasons, but truthfully, even if it did join, the probability of a US President being tried is nil, just as it is with a Russian leader. In order for that to happen, there would have to be a large war with one side defeated so that show trials, er, meaningful and just trials, could be carried out.

The Nuernberg trial, anyone? Stalin trialing Hitler...

Quote
As it stands now, the ICC is good for going after leaders of African thugocracies.

And selectively, for that matter. Mugabe, anyone?

Quote
If anyone goes to trial over the MH17 incident, it will be some lower level patsy or patsies. Someone got away with mass murder or at least mass manslaughter.

Nothing new under the sun.

Marc · July 23, 2014, 08:06:17 AM

Around my apartment it was completely silent around 4 pm this afternoon.
Quite impressive.

Ukraine and Gaza this week, two fine examples of human behaviour in our civilized world.

Today is a day of National remembrance in the Netherlands.

Marc