Do atheists listen to any atheist composer?

[North Star]

'Spiritual' has to do with human beings' capability of thinking, and abstract thinking in particular.

[Ken B]

We may be talking at cross-purposes here.  I agree, objectively, the spiritual does not exist.  As a (self-styled) phenomenologist, however, I give credence for study purposes to human descriptions, perceptions, and judgments.   Admittedly subjective, experiential, these can nevertheless reveal much about the inner workings and structure of human thought and emotion.  In their sum total they equal what it means to be human - often silly, yes, and often tragic.  And I might add they offer much to those who are interested in the effects of music on listeners. 

Now let me at that cupboard where the spiritual is kept...

"spiritual" is a word for a swathe of emotional reactions, but an unhelpful one because it implies something about their cause or their value as evidence. Substitute "Great Pumpkinish" for "spiritual" and you will get a good idea of what I, and I think 71 dB, mean. 

[Karl Henning]

Substitute "Great Pumpkinish" for "spiritual" and you will get a good idea of what I, and I think 71 dB, mean. 

Which is to say, scorn.  Yes, that registers, and does not reflect particularly well.

[Karl Henning]

'Spiritual' has to do with human beings' capability of thinking, and abstract thinking in particular.

And, I think, an apt affirmation from Our Favorite Agnostic:

... music is not only an `entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.

[North Star]

And, I think, an apt affirmation from Our Favorite Agnostic:

Apt, indeed.
(I thought that was Schwammerl.  )

I believe in beauty. I believe in stones and water, air and soil, people and their future and their fate.

[Ken B]

Which is to say, scorn.  Yes, that registers, and does not reflect particularly well.

Scorn for the implication that claims of "spirituality" should trump reason or evidence, yes. And such claims are routinely made. That's the whole point of describing it as due to something external.
The Great Pumpkin, like the spritual realm, is something external and non-existent.
But if you like try the experiment with a subjective and purely descriptive term that carries no such implication. Examples are "exciting" or "hilarious". That I hope passes under your scorn detector unremarked. No-one would claim that an excited or amused feeling in response to an incident, or piece of art, has vouchsafed to one an insight into the world, or how other people should be treated. That is precisely what is claimed for "spiritual" experiences. And that claim deserves scorn.

[Florestan]

No-one would claim that an excited or amused feeling in response to an incident, or piece of art, has vouchsafed to one an insight into the world, or how other people should be treated. That is precisely what is claimed for "spiritual" experiences.

Au contraire, that is precisely what is not claimed.

The very pure spirit does not bother about the regard of others or human respect, but communes inwardly with God, alone and in solitude as to all forms, and with delightful tranquility, for the knowledge of God is received in divine silence. - St. John of the Cross.

The most powerful prayer, one wellnigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own. - Meister Eckhart

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I will meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about
language, ideas, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense. - Rumi

A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"
"Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.
"I am a samurai," the warrior replied.
"You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard? Your face looks like that of a beggar."
Nobushige became so angry that he began to draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too dull to cut off my head."
As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin remarked: "Here open the gates of hell!"
At these words the samurai, perceiving the master's discipline, sheathed his sword and bowed.
"Here open the gates of paradise," said Hakuin. - Zen koan

[71 dB]

'Spiritual' has to do with human beings' capability of thinking, and abstract thinking in particular.

Abstract thinking has nothing to do with spiritualims. Feelings and emotions are different from thinking.

Are intelligent animals like dolphins spiritual? Answering that question is not important, thinking about it is.

Rationalization of our feelings and emotions with terms like 'spiritual' is totally unnecessory. We are what we are. If you feel it you feel it. What is important is the understanding of what it means when you feel something.

[North Star]

Abstract thinking has nothing to do with spiritualims. Feelings and emotions are different from thinking.

Are intelligent animals like dolphins spiritual? Answering that question is not important, thinking about it is.

Rationalization of our feelings and emotions with terms like 'spiritual' is totally unnecessory. We are what we are. If you feel it you feel it. What is important is the understanding of what it means when you feel something.

Yeah, right. I'm sure pandas and dolphins ponder the meaning of life, ethics & aesthetics all the time. And do you really think language has developed separately, that people have wondered about the same things before they had the words for them?

[Karl Henning]

Now I'm thinking of Hudson Hawk, and Andy MacDowell speaking with the dolphins 

[Karl Henning]

Au contraire, that is precisely what is not claimed.

The very pure spirit does not bother about the regard of others or human respect, but communes inwardly with God, alone and in solitude as to all forms, and with delightful tranquility, for the knowledge of God is received in divine silence. - St. John of the Cross.

The most powerful prayer, one wellnigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own. - Meister Eckhart

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I will meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about
language, ideas, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense. - Rumi

A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"
"Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.
"I am a samurai," the warrior replied.
"You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard? Your face looks like that of a beggar."
Nobushige became so angry that he began to draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too dull to cut off my head."
As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin remarked: "Here open the gates of hell!"
At these words the samurai, perceiving the master's discipline, sheathed his sword and bowed.
"Here open the gates of paradise," said Hakuin. - Zen koan

Thank you for one of the most edifying contributions to the thread.

[71 dB]

Yeah, right. I'm sure pandas and dolphins ponder the meaning of life, ethics & aesthetics all the time. And do you really think language has developed separately, that people have wondered about the same things before they had the words for them?

Well, pandas probably think only how to find tasty bamboo rods to chew.  Dolphins must have some kind of ethics, at least at some level. Otherwise we wouldn't have those stories about how dolphins have rescued swimmers from drowning.

What are these "same things"? Sure, you can't think about books if you don't have words. Language gives a way to communicate your thoughts to other, share them. However, this about the hsitory of linguistics, not 'spiriual'.

Animals do communicate too. Also, animals learn to understand human communication and vice versa.

[Ken B]

Au contraire, that is precisely what is not claimed.

The very pure spirit does not bother about the regard of others or human respect, but communes inwardly with God, alone and in solitude as to all forms, and with delightful tranquility, for the knowledge of God is received in divine silence. - St. John of the Cross.

The most powerful prayer, one wellnigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own. - Meister Eckhart

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I will meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about
language, ideas, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense. - Rumi

A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"
"Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.
"I am a samurai," the warrior replied.
"You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard? Your face looks like that of a beggar."
Nobushige became so angry that he began to draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too dull to cut off my head."
As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin remarked: "Here open the gates of hell!"
At these words the samurai, perceiving the master's discipline, sheathed his sword and bowed.
"Here open the gates of paradise," said Hakuin. - Zen koan

You can't be serious Andrei. You really truly honesty deny that people who claim to have spiritual experiences also claim that these experiences vouchsafe to them insights or justifications denied to the rest of us? Really?
And as proof your first citation is a man claiming a directl line to god's will?

[Karl Henning]

You can't be serious Andrei.

You know, discussion and disagreement are so much less noisome when one has the character to treat the other fellow with respect.  Even if you are in the right, your cause is not diminished by failing to show contempt for the fellow you disagree with.

[Gurn Blanston]

Long experience here (and elsewhere) have taught me a major lesson, which I freely impart to you all: discussions of religion and anti-religion never amount to anything because deep-seated beliefs are immutable. When the first post was made in this thread I knew it was destined for the refuse heap, but thought we might see what sort of discussion developed. As it always will be, this was a mistake on my part. I won't make it again.

GB