Robin Williams Dead At 63

[Cato]

We all eventually reach the end of our march. For some of us, the route is long. For others, the path is short. But it's not the length of the journey that matters as much as the steps we take.

If you discovered disease was about to cut your life short, no one could rightfully judge you for dropping out of line. But for those who refuse to let an incurable illness keep them from doing their duty, for those who keep fighting, for those who live life vigorously and joyfully to the very end, we have names for those people. We call them heroes.

I had the pleasure of working with Mark during a USO tour he helped organize for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 2004. At the time, he inspired me in the same way all military personnel do. Everyone who serves their country deserves respect for their personal sacrifice, and they sure get mine. But after learning of his battle with cancer, my respect for Mark grew exponentially. . . .

Lieutenant Colonel Weber marched with purpose, humor, dignity, and grace. This book is about what drove him. It's a look at who he was, what he believed, and what awaits his sons in their own lives. Reading it might help you advance through this world, too.

May he light the way."

From a foreword by actor Robin Williams, who died on Monday at age 63, for Tell My Sons: A Father's Last Letters by Lt. Col. Mark Weber, who died June 13, 2013, at age 41:

(My emphasis and italics above)

Published in today's  August 13, 2014 Wall Street Journal

[Cato]

Transcript from the police press conference: after the policeman has explained that Robin WIlliams committed suicide

Reporter: "Was his death accidental?"

"Uh, no, sir. Suicide is an intentional, intentful act.  It isn't an accident.  Last question."

"Well, where was his wife at 10:30 last night?"

"I don't know where Mrs. Williams was, and I wouldn't tell you if I did."

"Well, uh, is it possible he could come back to life and -- and...?"

"Sir, he committed suicide by hanging.  That's the preliminary information we have."

"Well, what do you mean, 'preliminary'?"

"Well, when we finish the investigation, we'll have a final determination."

"You mean -- you mean...?"

"Sir, it just means that everything is normal here.  The only thing different is you're here.  Everything we're doing is what we do in every circumstance when this happens with any citizen in our county.  The only difference is you are here," meaning the media.

"Well, well, was he naked, or was...?"

"Sir, he was clothed.  This was not an autoerotic sexual act, sir."

"Oh, damn! Okay."

(My emphasis on that hard to believe question above.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/D_Q8ItRrXe0

[springrite]

FOX News calling Robin Williams a coward for killing himself.

Well, that is FOX. If they didn't did like everyone else, Robin would probably be disappointed.

[Mirror Image]

FOX News calling Robin Williams a coward for killing himself.

Well, that is FOX. If they didn't did like everyone else, Robin would probably be disappointed.

I'm surprised FOX didn't say something much worse. That news network is known for inserting their foots in their mouth on a regular basis.

[springrite]

I'm surprised FOX didn't say something much worse. That news network is known for inserting their foots in their mouth on a regular basis.

No insertion required. I believe it's been surgically attached.

[Karl Henning]

Trust them, to issue a "clarification" where a frank apology would be the right thing.

[Mirror Image]

No insertion required. I believe it's been surgically attached.

Very true.

[Sef]

Well I think he was a coward for committing suicide - taking the easy way out and leaving his family to suffer the consequences. It quite clearly states in the bible that suicide is a sin, so I expect he is in hell right now making it ready for Obama and his socialist chums.

[Brian]

His wife has just said that he was recently diagnosed with early stages of Parkinson's disease.

Well I think he was a coward for committing suicide - taking the easy way out and leaving his family to suffer the consequences. It quite clearly states in the bible that suicide is a sin, so I expect he is in hell right now making it ready for Obama and his socialist chums.

This would maybe be funny in a month, but it's still too soon to be joking about this.

[Sef]

Who's joking? You correctly inferred that I don't hold those beliefs, but following on from the Fox News entries don't jump to the conclusion that no one can be that insensitive:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/13/the-15-most-horrible-conservative-comments-about-robin-williams-death-on-social-media/

[Mirror Image]

Well I think he was a coward for committing suicide - taking the easy way out and leaving his family to suffer the consequences. It quite clearly states in the bible that suicide is a sin, so I expect he is in hell right now making it ready for Obama and his socialist chums.

This is certainly one of the most absurd comments I've read on this forum. Williams, as noted by Brian, was in the early stages of Parkinson's and he was also suffering from severe depression. The man was mentally ill and was on his way to being physically ill. You may think it was a selfish thing to do and I don't condone what he did, but I understand much better now the circumstances he found himself in. Leave the Bible, religion in general, and politics out of this, they don't belong here.

[Ken B]

This is certainly one of the most absurd comments I've read on this forum. Williams, as noted by Brian, was in the early stages of Parkinson's and he was also suffering from severe depression. The man was mentally ill and was on his way to being physically ill. You may think it was a selfish thing to do and I don't condone what he did, but I understand much better now the circumstances he found himself in. Leave the Bible, religion in general, and politics out of this, they don't belong here.[\b]

Although I think you have misread the irony John I agree with your sentiment.
So I am going to be harsh here. Springrite tossed in a loaded characterization with no evidence. And even if his characterization of what was said is correct all that shows is someone ON Fox new said that it would no more imply that Fox said it than Sef's comment would imply GMG did.  Bad logic, no evidence, smear tactics, and from a man's suicide. Pfui.

[milk]

Well, people are free to post what they want but I'm much more interested in a discussion of depression. The fact that he had Parkinson's disease might change the way we think about the situation. I have a relative who killed himself after living with a severe form of Multiple sclerosis. I'm not going to criticize him for that and I think the family came to accept it, in a way. I don't know much about Parkinson's but it seems like it's become more manageable and I wonder how much this contributed to Williams' suicide. On the other hand, I've lived with depression all my life so I can relate to the feelings of hopelessness (as Charles Schulz said to his wife on their wedding night, "I'll never be happy."). As I said previously, I think the medical model has done some harm, although it's true that some people come down with depression due to circumstances/pressures/situations and can be "cured" with short-term counseling. I posted a book in the book forum, the title of which I can't recall, by a British expert, that claimed, based on research, that medication most often does not help people with depression. But a professional once told me that medication is helpful for people with severe forms of mental illness, perhaps forms more complicated than depression. In any case, depression is a tough nut as it makes it hard to see the world "realistically."
Though I didn't know it, I felt sad as a child, and, ironically, Robin Williams' comedy album "Reality...What a Concept" really did cheer me. It might seem like a small thing, but the ideas on that and Martin's "Let's Get Small" had a real impact on my life. I can't think of any other comedy albums that affected me as much as these. I think, because I was so young and impressionable, Robin stuck with me for that much more than anything else he did.
This is a question I'll find another forum for (which?), but I'm curious what comedy albums affected people from previous generations. I know Bob Newhart had some really successful ones that landed him. Woody Allen has a couple. Cosby? Brooks and Reiner? Pryor? Carlin?

It's really sad to see Robin go. His talent really did reach me and, I think, make a difference in the world.       

[Ken B]

Well, people are free to post what they want but I'm much more interested in a discussion of depression. The fact that he had Parkinson's disease might change the way we think about the situation. I have a relative who killed himself after living with a severe form of Multiple sclerosis. I'm not going to criticize him for that and I think the family came to accept it, in a way. I don't know much about Parkinson's but it seems like it's become more manageable and I wonder how much this contributed to Williams' suicide. On the other hand, I've lived with depression all my life so I can relate to the feelings of hopelessness (as Charles Schulz said to his wife on their wedding night, "I'll never be happy."). As I said previously, I think the medical model has done some harm, although it's true that some people come down with depression due to circumstances/pressures/situations and can be "cured" with short-term counseling. I posted a book in the book forum, the title of which I can't recall, by a British expert, that claimed, based on research, that medication most often does not help people with depression. But a professional once told me that medication is helpful for people with severe forms of mental illness, perhaps forms more complicated than depression. In any case, depression is a tough nut as it makes it hard to see the world "realistically."
Though I didn't know it, I felt sad as a child, and, ironically, Robin Williams' comedy album "Reality...What a Concept" really did cheer me. It might seem like a small thing, but the ideas on that and Martin's "Let's Get oSmall" had a real impact on my life. I can't think of any other comedy albums that affected me as much as these. I think, because I was so young and impressionable, Robin stuck with me for that much more than anything else he did.
This is a question I'll find another forum for (which?), but I'm curious what comedy albums affected people from previous generations. I know Bob Newhart had some really successful ones that landed him. Woody Allen has a couple. Cosby? Brooks and Reiner? Pryor? Carlin?

It's really sad to see Robin go. His talent really did reach me and, I think, make a difference in the world.       

As for comedy ... Monty Python for me by a lot. But I did like Carlin and Steve Martin and Richard Pryor especially. His routine on setting himself afire was brilliant.

As for depression: one size does not fit all, but brains go out of whack, and drugs can help. There are very effective drugs out there that can and do help.

[milk]

As for comedy ... Monty Python for me by a lot. But I did like Carlin and Steve Martin and Richard Pryor especially. His routine on setting himself afire was brilliant.

As for depression: one size does not fit all, but brains go out of whack, and drugs can help. There are very effective drugs out there that can and do help.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I worry that a certain model of depression is pushed for profit and that the view that depression is a brain out of whack that is in need of medicating as the dominant view of depression, is harmful.

[springrite]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I worry that a certain model of depression is pushed for profit and that the view that depression is a brain out of whack that is in need of medicating as the dominant view of depression, is harmful.

Thank you for that. I am on my way to help someone whose brain is fried by psychiatric medication. It is like someone with a fever and the doctors keeps giving his medication to bring the temp down without finding out what was causing his fever. The temp does come down with the medication but the illness remains and he will die is he uses only medication to control his temperature. Medication may be used, but only as a assistive tool to treatment that gets to the real problem, the source of the problem.

[Marc]

As for depression: one size does not fit all, but brains go out of whack, and drugs can help. There are very effective drugs out there that can and do help.

Indeed.
Especially for endogenous depressions.

But it's certainly good to combine this treatment with probing conversations with a well-educated professional. They can give you advice and (non-medical) tools to deal with your disease.

Just a careful opinion though; this is a very complicated matter.
Each patient is different, despite all the similarities.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I worry that a certain model of depression is pushed for profit and that the view that depression is a brain out of whack that is in need of medicating as the dominant view of depression, is harmful.

Unfortunately, there are also bad psychiatrists, who only make things worse, and they are also making lots of money, at the expense of patients who firmly believe in their doctor's treatment.

[Ken B]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I worry that a certain model of depression is pushed for profit and that the view that depression is a brain out of whack that is in need of medicating as the dominant view of depression, is harmful.

Well ultimately it is an empirical question. You and Paul have I suppose your anecdotal evidence one way; my anecdotal evidence is strongly the other way. Neither is a good basis for argument. What matters are the properly controlled studies. As far as I know they are pretty clear.
No-one now talks about schizophrenia as caused by mothers; we all know it's brain chemistry. The same is true of bipolar.
Not that all sadness is depression, or that all depression is serious enough to warrant drugs. That's why we pay doctors. But in the end they can only make a good guess.

In reply to Marc's point: talk therapists make money too. Peddling talk is the same as peddling drugs that way.

[Brian]

Well ultimately it is an empirical question. You and Paul have I suppose your anecdotal evidence one way; my anecdotal evidence is strongly the other way. Neither is a good basis for argument. What matters are the properly controlled studies. As far as I know they are pretty clear.
No-one now talks about schizophrenia as caused by mothers; we all know it's brain chemistry. The same is true of bipolar.

The sad reality is that, more than most (physical) diseases, mental illness responds to medication in hugely different ways. I know a lot of people with mental illnesses - in fact, all but maybe 3 of my closest friends. They have all had different results. Some are on daily medication to this day. Others found that medicine numbed them so that they couldn't feel anything, happy or sad. Additionally, different medications have different effects (similar to the medicine you might take for, say, allergies). The great essayist and novelist David Foster Wallace committed suicide while unsuccessfully transitioning from one medicine to another. Everything works differently for different brains. That's why the anecdotal evidence of the people in this thread can differ.

I feel fortunate that my own bout of severe depression (which many of you may have noticed in 2012) was situational and caused by circumstances in my life, circumstances which have now been removed.

[milk]

Well ultimately it is an empirical question. You and Paul have I suppose your anecdotal evidence one way; my anecdotal evidence is strongly the other way. Neither is a good basis for argument. What matters are the properly controlled studies. As far as I know they are pretty clear.
No-one now talks about schizophrenia as caused by mothers; we all know it's brain chemistry. The same is true of bipolar.
Not that all sadness is depression, or that all depression is serious enough to warrant drugs. That's why we pay doctors. But in the end they can only make a good guess.

In reply to Marc's point: talk therapists make money too. Peddling talk is the same as peddling drugs that way.

You have, probably unintentionally, straw-man-ed me which I find exasperating. To quote myself, you are talking about " forms more complicated than depression" if I could put it that way. Although depression can be complicated so maybe there's a better way to say it. I know people who believe they have benefitted from medication. There have been times in my life when I thought I benefitted from it. But, overall, I remain skeptical of it as a "cure" for mine and I no longer use it. 
Here's the book I mentioned:

I haven't read it but I listened to his interview here:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/60050-manufacturing-depression/
I found Gary Greenberg persuasive in the interview but this is a highly complicated and contentious topic, I'm not an academic expert, I haven't studied the literature, and my opinion is open to evolution. I tried to be very tentative in the comments that I made in this thread. Very tentative I thought.
To sum up, a chemical "cure" or a counseling "cure" may be effective in incidental depression. But for people with long-term deep depression, while medication may help some or even many, I'm skeptical of this way of looking the illness.
But I tend to think that many of the world's problems are caused by bad parenting and that this is perpetuated by a societal taboos against, and people's deep-seated psychological fear of (try reading Alice Miller's Drama of the Gifted Child), criticizing their parents.

A sign on Mt Fuji reads:
"Your life is a precious gift from your parents. Please think about your parents, siblings and children. Don't keep it to yourself. Talk about your troubles." That might be enough, if I were in a dark mood, to send me over the edge!